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Christ! Someone makes a bad taste joke and it descends into a poorly researched discussion about the pros and cons of Hitler's management style. Seriously, put the keyboard down and go and do something outside. Maybe, and this is a radical idea given that this is a cycling forum and all, but maybe you could go and ride your bike?

What was I thinking of? Thanks for your good advice.

Just leave it. 'Bobbo' has spoken...

Christ! Someone makes a bad taste joke and it descends into a poorly researched discussion about the pros and cons of Hitler's management style. Seriously, put the keyboard down and go and do something outside. Maybe, and this is a radical idea given that this is a cycling forum and all, but maybe you could go and ride your bike?

Hitler wouldn't have liked Christ.

Just leave it. 'Bobbo' has spoken...

Alright, Woolyback...

Christ! Someone makes a bad taste joke and it descends into a poorly researched discussion about the pros and cons of Hitler's management style. Seriously, put the keyboard down and go and do something outside. Maybe, and this is a radical idea given that this is a cycling forum and all, but maybe you could go and ride your bike?

Meh, hot topic that's just going to get worse... MeThinks I'll leave this one for the big boys to fight over it

.

Godwinned.

Oh and Iain, the word you were grasping for was 'orator'

Godwinned.

Cheers Niall... Jezias I'm fucking up the English language today.

Guess I should just stick to "watch spot run" books

Actually b&d is right. Hitler was evil, but he was also an excellent leader, narrator and con.

Re: the 'leader' question--there are many such myths about Hitler in circulation, but the reality was rather different. Lots of people are desperate to attribute some sort of overwhelming personal quality to Hitler, no doubt out of a desire to explain and in some cases justify his rise to power. However, he was simply a political hasardeur who employed brutality and other dishonourable means.

'Narrator'--no doubt you mean 'rhetor' or 'orator'. It's very easy to evoke this impression if all that you do is appeal to your audience's baser instincts. He was loud, he was intense, he performed within highly stylised settings, but a great orator he was not.

'Con'--actually, you'll find that Hitler set out his entire political programme in "Mein Kampf" long before the Machtergreifung. The trouble is that people either didn't read this or didn't take it seriously. In either case, they failed to realise how dangerous it would be to give any kind of prominence to a dim-witted, hate-filled neurotic full of reprehensible, uneducated, late 19th century racist bullshit. While he of course went on to simply violate international law willy-nilly and any kind of agreement with him wasn't worth the paper it was written on, much of it had long been in the public domain, had people only paid attention, which makes what happened all the more tragic. I'll give you 'con' as far as certain political assassinations are concerned, such as those of the SA leadership in the 'Night of the Long Knives'.

Re: the 'leader' question--there are many such myths about Hitler in circulation, but the reality was rather different. Lots of people are desperate to attribute some sort of overwhelming personal quality to Hitler, no doubt out of a desire to explain and in some cases justify his rise to power. However, he was simply a political hasardeur who employed brutality and other dishonourable means.

'Narrator'--no doubt you mean 'rhetor' or 'orator'. It's very easy to evoke this impression if all that you do is appeal to your audience's baser instincts. He was loud, he was intense, he performed within highly stylised settings, but a great orator he was not.

'Con'--actually, you'll find that Hitler set out his entire political programme in "Mein Kampf" long before the Machtergreifung. The trouble is that people either didn't read this or didn't take it seriously. In either case, they failed to realise how dangerous it would be to give any kind of prominence to a dim-witted, hate-filled neurotic full of reprehensible, uneducated, late 19th century racist bullshit. While he of course went on to simply violate international law willy-nilly and any kind of agreement with him wasn't worth the paper it was written on, much of it had long been in the public domain, had people only paid attention, which makes what happened all the more tragic. I'll give you 'con' as far as certain political assassinations are concerned, such as those of the SA leadership in the 'Night of the Long Knives'.

Oliver, their teachers have failed them, why should we bother?
Scratch that. They have failed their teachers, etc...

Each one, teach one.

Iain, I think you mean "See Spot run!"

I only know this because my little sister was obsessed with the series, honest.

sorry everyone

Meh, hot topic that's just going to get worse... MeThinks I'll leave this one for the big boys to fight over it

Gah....

I can't win today...

Gah....

I can't win today...

The topic of 'see Spot run' is evidently beyond you. :$

I just read that Eric Hill, who created the Spot books, was awarded an OBE for services to literature.

I'm doing it wrong.

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/09/02/epic-video-jon-stewart-rips-clint-eastwood-routine/

Jon Stewart's excellent response to Clint Eastwood and Mitt Romney.

I'm not really a huge fan of his shouty presenting style, but I do think Stewart's observations are normally spot on. He's a good lad.

'Narrator'--no doubt you mean 'rhetor' or 'orator'. It's very easy to evoke this impression if all that you do is appeal to your audience's baser instincts. He was loud, he was intense, he performed within highly stylised settings, but a great orator he was not.

Maybe Demagogue?

Shame Hitler never got to do a talking book version of 'See Spot Run'.

Though his reading of Heidi on Radio Vienna's Hört mit Mutter is superb, not a dry eye in the house.

Re: [Hitler]....

Not wanting to kick-start the debate too much but I'll throw my 2p in anyway...

re 'orator' - it depends on how you define it. I managed to find a definition that seemed very fitting ; )

1. a person given to lengthy or pompous speeches
   

But you’ve pretty succinctly nailed his strengths.

re leader – really depends what you mean. He operated a pretty laissez faire approach. Him at the top and then everyone below fighting for prominence. For e.g. there is an argument to be made that he didn’t actually have a great deal of insight into the details of the holocaust (the lack evidence on this is one of the things holocaust deniers latch onto when trying to dispute the idea of a properly cohesive “final solution policy”). Much of it was pushed hardest by those trying to curry favour.

I think you make a really good point about the mythological status Hitler has. My opinion is it’s a mixture of good use of imagery/iconography/impressive marketing/etc. at the time and the post war need for a ‘villain’... which I guess helps to absolve all sorts of guilt for all sorts of people... as well as probably a political device. Still without wanting to sound like some sort of Nazi fan-boy ‘they’ still created that image.

I do disagree with you on MK. People clearly underestimated him, however, I think you should always be careful about putting too much on the idea of MK being a blue-print. Ultimately (imo) he wanted power, and I think he’d have sacrificed whatever to get it (like dropping his socialist policies). Also (from memory) much of it is fairly par for the course when it comes to extremist doctrines/manifestos. Anyway you can’t really blame people for not reading it...it's pretty hard work, I’m sure a fair few tried to start it tho!

If there's anything to be pointed to imo, it's his undeniable raw skill as a political maneuver, which you’ve touched on in your eg of the SA.

Not seen this before but surely a shoe-in for the forum t-shirt competition? Well it will be if someone draws a cock on it.

Edit - I presume this is a photoshop of the original which was about car sharing?

"when you drive a car you dive with Addison Lee..."

Correct.