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• #1977
I'm pretty sure it doesn't change anything.
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• #1978
I think we've seen that one enough now.
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• #1979
Dan has commented on elbow and forearm checking in the London Open, over in the Polo Videos thread. I think the discussion is more relevant here.
I'd be interested to hear from whoever reffed those final games; it'd be interesting to hear if they think the game was clean or that they couldn't see all the stuff that wasn't called.
We discussed giving more power to the assistant refs (goal judges) in this tournament but I'm not sure I saw a ref consult an assistant, other than for a goal decision, and I don't think I saw an assistant call a foul.
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• #1980
I think Mayeut took over from Chucker for the last few games.
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• #1981
Yeah, I don't mean to rag on Luca, it's just an example. Agreed it was smart and probably not malicious, but this is the first time I've seen something like that. Almost like setting a 'block/screen' for yourself - I know it's not necessarily relevant, but I think that's called 'obstruction' or something in football. I guess I do something similar all the time when the ball goes into the corner and I want to keep an opponent away, albeit rarely resulting in contact.
The separate point is the elbow thing, which I think is down to height differential, but also I don't think it's possible to keep 'elbows in' most of the time, due to people's riding positions and the physics of riding/turning in polo.
On top of that, the ref would've had almost no view of that incident - and if he/she did or the goalref wanted to make a call, there seems to be sufficient controversy/ambiguity in the rules to make it a mega-hard call. T-Bones are still getting discussed f'rchristsake...
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• #1982
Can you screengrab what you mean?
An unextended arm to protect space, or to receive/give checks is fine in the latest NAH rules. As soon as you extend your arm past 90 degrees that's meant to be a foul (shoving, or holding, etc)... but I've never seen it called.
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• #1983
I don't have the skills, but if you keep pausing the video at and around the point of contact 16.15-ish, you can see Luca's elbow is about as pointy as you could make it (45 degrees or something?) and it's well into Ryan's cockpit*. That's not forearm 'protection' or shoulder-to-shoulder 'checking'...
Apart from that, I don't know what it means to make such a move 'off the ball' (I guess you could say the ball is 'in play' as they are both playing it, but neither is 'in possession', I'd say).
*uuuh huh hu huh
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• #1984
I see exactly what you mean at 16.15, that's just a height difference thing in my opinion.
Luca does use his pointy elbow a little, but smaller players are gonna have a hard time making contact should-to-shoulder with taller players? I don't think an elbow in your kidneys/cockpit can be called anything other than holding at the moment, it's true that some players perhaps use their elbows to 'chicken-wing' their way in front of other players.
If he had made contact with Ryan's steering arm (below the elbow) then that would be bad, but if you watch the clip (without pauses) it seems like a completely clean check/self-screen to me?
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• #1985
Looks like it get's tangled with Ryan's steering arm to me, but it's not clear.
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• #1986
There is a problem here: when taller players drop their shoulders to hit other players steering arms/elbows/forearms it is seen as a foul but when smaller players' shoulders make contact with taller elbows and forearms it is incidental? This is not ideal. The same contact is being made.
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• #1987
World Stratified Hardcourt Bike Polo Champs 2014?
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• #1988
I see what you mean Snoops, to be honest smaller players get away with everything at the moment, whereas bigger guys get called all the time (regardless of contact made)... hopefully that will improve in the future, but I'm not sure how (more experienced refs maybe)?
If Ryan had gone down it's possible that it would have been called as a steering infraction (or whatever), but he is a badass and stayed up (players with bad bike control also get more fouls called in their favour).
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• #1989
Yeh, I'm not sure of the solution either, but I see the problem growing.
Refs need to look at the game more objectively. It doesn't matter if a player stays up after a foul, they should be given advantage, which has to end in a turnover or goal against the penalised team.
We shouldn't be discussing height differences here, we have a ruleset that must be enforced regardless of height.
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• #1990
Pushing with the elbow right behind the steering arm.
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• #1991
I call photoshop.
Where are the mallets? -
• #1992
Height differences contra calls in or out of favour happen in most sports with physical contact. Peter Crouch is far more likely to get a foul called against him in a header situation than say Jermain Defoe (football example, soz). Like snoops said, ref's just need to look at it objectively.
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• #1993
I also thought Luca's move was veering towards illegal, looked like he went in elbow first. Didn't get called though, so kudos to him.
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• #1994
Above the elbow is fine (clean hit), below is bad (foul), I'd say that's borderline. Luca just needs to keep his elbows in and it'd look fine?
Where are the mallets?
Hah!
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• #1995
Not trying to justify it or anything but in that picture/move im pushing on ryan with my upper arm (bicep??) other wise i'd fall into his area because ryan is such a giant! (it's happened before when me and ryan (and other real tall guys) try to go shoulder to shoulder and also happens later or earlier in the game and it's not good for both of us.
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• #1996
I call photoshop.
Where are the mallets?pure screenshot.
look harder
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• #1997
I call floating heads
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• #1998
Not trying to justify it or anything but ...
Your forearm would need to be behind your back to initiate contact with your bicep. Have you been skipping anatomy?
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• #1999
it's happened before when me and ryan (and other real tall guys) try to go shoulder to shoulder and also happens later or earlier in the game and it's not good for both of us.
LOLWUT
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• #2000
We have to learn how to make proper check, i saw some like Ryan or Emmet gettin' in a really cleary elbow along their ribs to make it safer as possible, we should learn to make it like that every way. Cause right now the checking thing is all sketchy and i suprised myself to put elbows mostly because i don't really know how to make a proper check.
About reffing, honnestly i really don't know how it's gonna be reffed, it looks so hard to see sometimes.
I don't think tooth profile should even be discussed, as there's even differences between freewheels like:
http://www.tontacycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/SDC18097.jpg
and
http://www.bmxinternational.com.au/Uploads/Suppliers/BMX%20International/Images/8AAAFCD8-05B1-4BE3-8496-21D21F45BE2B.jpg