Hamilton vs. Hoy

I don't really see how he is dodging tax though. As RPM said above, most of his money is earned elsewhere on earth and he doesn't live here any more, as is his right. He is doing something totally different (in my opinion) to someone like Philip Green who (apparently) really does dodge tax, makes most of his money here and (arguably) lives here too.

He works for a UK based employer (near Woking, Surrey). Not sure how that works tax-wise though.

Markyboy, he's only been in F1 for 2 years.

In the second year, he won it; though the last race did look like a really peculiar win (just as his last race in China the previous year, looked like a really inexplicable defeat).

Okay, so I concede that tax avoidance isn't noble, but its widely the accepted practise by just most of F1 drivers.

Hamilton feels the negative vibes from many Brits, and for that reason alone (added to the tax reduction), wise heads might well concur with his move a friendlier place.

Look, how else can I say this? He may be very talented (I prefer Valentino Rossi - who lives in London - though), he may have shot to success, he may be the youngest champion, he may be the first black champion - I defer to all you petrol heads on this. But I still reserve my right to dislike him because he avoids paying tax, and to dislike him more because he won't admit that this is the reason he doesn't live here, and to dislike him even more for trying to repair his public image by helping to raise money for Children In Need to do the things that should be paid for out of taxes that he doesn't pay in the first fucking place.

Yes, he's not alone in this. And if someone had started a thread called "Nigel Mansell races a turd", then I would be saying the same things. But no one would be insulting me by saying it was because he was black, and no one would be patronising me by saying I was too infulenced by the nasty media.

Rant over (for now)!

the race card is a really cyclical argument tho G

you dont like him? No That's because he's not white That's not why I don't warm to him** Racist**

there's no real way of arguing against that

was going to say that was a very black and white way of putting it but didn't want to be racist :^]

I will not be drawn on matters of race, except to say that it is one of many prejudices that abound in this country.....it appears to be **our **human nature to make summary, inaccurate assessments of others....

Out of interest I would really like to know just how many card-carrying members of the NF are left......I honestly thought they'd died out.

Markyboy, you're clearly holding back. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Aha, got me there...

You are fucking stupid aren't you?

I am? You better tell me why oh wise one.

But I still reserve my right to dislike him because he avoids paying tax, and to dislike him more because he won't admit that this is the reason he doesn't live here!
Markyboy, not many famous tax avoiding personalities openly admit that they won't live in the UK because they want to avoid the tax. Other reasons are sometimes given.

But in Hamilton's case - he's at the beginning of his career, and it would be very bad publicity indeed to admit that you are avoiding your own country's tax. That would be wearable when he's no longer racing, but that type of negative statement would hit him hard in the pocket, regarding lucrative advertising.

Should a young man at the beginning of his career, be expected to write-off future earnings just so that he can be honest about his persoanl finances? This seems a bit much.

In summation:

"I don't like Lewis Hamilton very much"

"Izzit cos he's black?"

"No."

"Yes it is"

"No it isn't"

"You are fucking stupid aren't you?"

????

Good argument lads....

Schumacher knew how to professionally comport himself in an interview. BUT, when other drivers were interviewed about Schumacher, I cannot remember a single positive response about his manner, or his humility and restraint. Quite the opposite.

Arguably, Hamilton has done the same thing. By making a big deal about his struggle to succeed, and his close family, he has developed a fantastic press persona. Whether this is his doing, or his team, or the way the press has presented him is a matter for discussion.
I hadn't heard that about Schumacher, but he was the driver that got me into F1, and I guess I have the rose-tinted view that goes with that. However, none of the other drivers or pit-lane crew like Hamilton at all, although envy is probably a big part of that dislike.

Not at all directed at GA2G, but as an aside, I don't really think race is much of an issue here. Apart from those unbelievable Spanish tossers, no-one has made a massive deal about it, and I don't think it's a sport with a great deal of inherent racism. The fact that he's the first black world champ means that it's the first time a black guy has been the best in the world, rather than anything else, I hope.

Thing is, Hamilton's explanation is that he "gets recognised too much in England" - he can't even be honest about it. Then add to that the Children In Need appearance - pay some fucking tax instead, except the charity thing helps with his already dodgy public image.....

It all adds up to one big cunt.

i agree.

the sad thing is, it is probably his 'people' telling him he needs to live abroad, he's probably too young to have given it much thought.

Scummer!

:D

I don't really think race is much of an issue here. Apart from those unbelievable Spanish tossers
and the Brazilians......

I bet every one of you lot, if you could avoid paying a bit of tax here or a bit of tax there, you fucking would. I would. You're all bloody tax-dodging hyporgriffs.

hippy, I've just repped you in the other alternative universe, but I think there's a chance BIZARRO may steal it for himself.

Ten years ago, two boys were splashed over the newspapers when they became the youngest drivers signed by McLaren. Lewis Hamilton was 13 and already had a certain cool about him. Wesley Graves was 12, wore outsized spectacles and looked rather geeky. Today, Hamilton is said to be the most valuable commodity in British sport; Graves is unemployed, lives at home with his parents in their Leicester council house and hasn't raced for seven years.
Wesley Graves cannot think about anything but racing cars. To say he is frustrated is an understatement. The past few months have been particularly tough for him as Hamilton has come out of nowhere to be a household name.
His parents, Steve and Christine, have brought down all the old photos and the trophies their little boy won. Way before he could talk, Wesley was making motorcar noises. Steve doesn't know where it came from - he wasn't interested in cars and hadn't even passed his test till he was in his mid-30s.
Wesley: "I used to run round the house pretending I was a car. Weird, wasn't it?"
Christine: "He was five. Used to sit there in class doing car noises. They used to ring me up and say, could you talk to Wesley about these car noises?"
Steve: "Different noises for different engines."
Christine: "The teacher would say to him, 'You're not a Ferrari today, Wesley.' If he hears a car coming down the street, he knows what it is."
The three of them talk like a team. It soon becomes apparent that his parents were as involved in Wes's budding career as he was. They enjoyed every triumph and took collective umbrage at every slight.
At four Wesley was racing go-carts at 30-40mph, despite his dreadful eyesight. He took his glasses off for racing, until his parents insisted he put them back on. Weren't they terrified?
"Not really, no," Steve says.
"Yes," Christine says. "I couldn't watch him when he was young. I used to sit in the toilets with my fingers in my ears so I couldn't hear the Tannoy telling me where he was. Then somebody would come and fetch me and say, 'He's won, he's won!' "
At six he was driving at 60-70mph, and at nine he won the Midland and Southern Championship. He loved starting at the back and coming through to beat the field. Christine says other parents couldn't believe he was winning fairly and accused them of tinkering with the car.
What made him so good?
"Talent," Wesley says. "I don't know - I can drive." He still talks about racing in the present tense. "I love winning, I do. I love it. You get a feeling just here." He taps on his chest. "I feel good, I feel proud, if I don't win I don't like it."
With other sports, too? He shakes his head. "I don't like other sport, really. Just motor sport."
Steve Graves used to have an engineering business. He estimates that during the five years before Wesley joined McLaren, he spent £2,000 a month on his son's racing - £120,000 in total. "We saw it as an investment. Racing became like an addiction. It took me four years to get over it when Wes stopped racing."
The business went bust (partly due to recession, partly because of debts incurred by the racing) and they lost their house. The Graves family now believe they made the wrong decision signing for McLaren. It might have seemed like a short cut to fame and fortune, but this was where they lost control of Wesley's career. Wesley says he couldn't get used to the new McLaren car, and while the older Hamilton was put into a new elite class called Junior Yamaha, which meant he was only ever competing with a handful of other drivers, he was left floundering in a car he didn't like, racing against fields of around 50.
**Wesley thinks Lewis Hamilton was given special treatment. "They wanted to have the first black Formula 1 driver."
**At the end of the year, Hamilton was kept on and Graves was released. He has never raced since. Motor racing is not like other sports, his parents whisper - it's all about money and who you know rather than what you know. They reckon they'd need a minimum of £50,000 to get Wesley back on the road and have sought sponsorship to no avail.
Without his racing, Wesley went downhill. He got into trouble at school, disrupting the class. You weren't making car noises, were you? He smiles, for the first time. "No, just mischief. Not doing work, tormenting people. I felt lost." Does he watch the grands prix now? "I don't like watching it. It does my head in. I don't like looking at him, really."
"I don't think he means directly at him," his mother says gently.
"I don't like looking at him racing."
Because it should be you? "Yes."
"No, probably both of them," Christine says. "Wouldn't you say, Wes?"
"Well, I should be there anyway."
Christine: "Well, not even in Formula 1 probably, but somewhere."
"No, in Formula 1. But I'll never get to where he is. Not now. That's gone. I could get somewhere else."
Since leaving school, he has not held down a job. Sometimes he works with his father, who's now a landscape gardener. He says he has not got himself a job because he is a racing driver; this is what he was born to do. "And I will do it one day. I will. I'll be back." He has just applied for a racing scholarship and talks about when he gets it, not if, despite the fact that more than 200 are competing for it.
What does he think of the stories that Hamilton could earn £1bn over the next 10 years ? He laughs bitterly. "It's horrible." Why? "Because I'm sitting here talking to you about what I could have been and what I should have been. That's why it's horrible. Then they say he's worth this much money. It does my head in. I hate it. It was like I was on the way, and it's took away from you."
He drives me back to the station. Every few seconds he toots a horn and waves at somebody in the street. "They all know me round here," he says. "I can't stand it. I need to get out of here. I'd like to move to Devon - or at least the outskirts of Leicester."

source - [SIZE=2]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/jul/28/features.comment
[/SIZE]

Astounding.

I think they should have a wrestle. That'd sort the wheat from the chaff.

...or just thresh around for a bit- that'd do it...

bukake

'Bukakke'.
In your face, RPM.

Not4reading

Not4reading

i read it.

That Guardian article is pure fucking tat... this is why I don't read the papers. Bunch of cunts.

tl;dr.
Back to the point, long ago lost in the midst of Hamilton hate, who do we think will win?
I almost get the feeling it's a Hoy-to-win set up, with the twisty track Hamilton has to negotiate. But if they put the twists in, they must have done the timing, so it all depends on who the organisers want to win. But, go Hoy!

Also, I recon Hamilton would win a wrestle. F1 drivers are unbelievably, crazy fit.

Back in the day, Afro-American sprinters earned money from performing publicity stunts, such as racing a horse over a short distance, and even a British sprinter raced a train in a 100 meter race along a platform on UK tv some years ago.

Good entertainment.

I think Hoy will win.

If your talking about Jesse Owens, he raced a horse out of desperation because athletes were so poorly paid. He was then banned from athletics such as the olympics as it was supposed to be an amateur non-professional competition.

Also, I recon Hamilton would win a wrestle. F1 drivers are unbelievably, crazy fit.

Never! Hoy would crush Hamilton's tiny bonce in his mighty Scottish thighs!

Yeah.. and triple Olympic medalists aren't really fit..

Hoy would give Hamilton one look and he'd run away screaming "not the face.. not my face!!!"