2008-09-24 - Rider Down/Fatality, Holborn

How about transparent stickers with bikes on them for the wing-mirrors of lorries? That way every time the lorry driver looks in the mirror he sees a bike. Print them out and get sticking - subtle but possibly effective gorilla activity. With so many cyclists being killed by lorries; something has to be done. Just a thought.

Terrible news....

Just thinking out loud but perhaps a campaign to provide road awareness literature at the point of sale? Either through the manufacturers or the traders i suppose....

The problem for many new riders is that cycle lanes generally increase danger by forcing riders into the gutter and an undertaking position. Trying to educate riders to overtake and hold a safe road position when all the signs are contradicting this may be difficult.

I know there have been a number of lowish profile campaigns to raise awareness (on both sides), e.g. http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/cycling/info/cyclists_and_lorries_factsheet_0206.pdf

I think that all bike shops should be giving out information on this subject whenever a bike is purchased. (what Broker said)

Does anyone know how much 'cyclist awareness' content there is in statutory training for HGV drivers?

And of course, word-of-mouth is a good way to spread the word. We can all play a part in educating other cyclists, and lorry drivers.

(@aidan) Yep but Bill can't do it alone, right?

Ghost bikes are only really symbolic to us. How many HGV drivers know what they signify?

How about transparent stickers with bikes on them for the wing-mirrors of lorries? That way every time the lorry driver looks in the mirror he sees a bike. Print them out and get sticking - subtle but possibly effective gorilla activity. With so many cyclists being killed by lorries; something has to be done. Just a thought.

+1... however, this may raise driver awareness, but cyclists need to keep themselves safe. You can't always count on others.

I stay the fuck away from HGVs.

Sad sad news.

Horrible news.

I saw one of these stickers on a lorry this morning. It says:
"Cyclists: Beware of passing this vehicle on the inside"

Apparently rolled out by ford/tfl in spring 2007, I think it is a good reminder for cyclists however it is not worded strongly enough, IMO.

(@aidan) Yep but Bill can't do it alone, right?

Ghost bikes are only really symbolic to us. How many HGV drivers know what they signify?

ofcourse...i was suggesting we spoke to him.

RIP

Gabes^ yes this is something worth doing. We need to get LCC and CTC involved.

Does anyone have contacts at LCC/CTC?

i've seen a lot of those stickers on HGV's. they also have the "if you can't see my mirrors then i can't see you".

Fuck - Thats what it was? I went past about 9.10 and it was packed with Buses backed all the way up to Oxford Circus. I almost got taken out by an irrate cabby jumping the lights.

Not a ctc memeber but I can post on their forums.

ofcourse...i was suggesting we spoke to him.

Yes. I think we're all starting to get to that point where something tangible needs to happen about this.

I know there have been a number of lowish profile campaigns to raise awareness (on both sides), e.g. http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/cycling/info/cyclists_and_lorries_factsheet_0206.pdf

I think that all bike shops should be giving out information on this subject whenever a bike is purchased. (what Broker said)

Does anyone know how much 'cyclist awareness' content there is in statutory training for HGV drivers?

And of course, word-of-mouth is a good way to spread the word. We can all play a part in educating other cyclists, and lorry drivers.

This is annoying the fuck out of me... I'm with BMMF and in general... As far as i see it.

Why is london not a cycling city... How many people have to get hurt... die before the roads are safe for cyclists.

These threads read more like an obituary than information at times... i dont want to read that one of my friends is dead due to cycling and bad driving... What is it that we can do to make londons roads safer? or at least steps in the right direction...

Shin.

Yes 3 accidents with HGV in 2 weeks, 2 of wich were fatal. This is getting rediculous!

Agree with tomiskinky etc. that some sort of campaign needs to be sorted. Maybe WE the riders of this forum, who all (hopefully) know how to use the road properly, can do something!

With the ammount of registered members, cant we all sign a petition and ride en mass to No.10?

Also FULLY agree that the riders need to be aware just as much, if not more than, the HGV drivers.

Thoughts to the family involved. Another sad day. :(

Due to threads like this whenever i see a HGV or something similar i back off, slow down or wait for it to pass.I think the only thing that has got me to act in that way is the death toll.

So much terrible news on the roads :(
Never find that area particularly pleasant to ride along, eapecially rush hour.
Re the accident on Holloway Rd last week with the old lady, there are some flowers, and a tribute. Up by Manor Gardens, the ghost bike for another accident has been removed but there are always very sad messages from the guy's family in Ireland. The amount of shudders I get riding along Holloway Rd some nights is, literally, frightening. People think they are on the main bit of the A1 already.

Does anyone know how much 'cyclist awareness' content there is in statutory training for HGV drivers?
s.

European regulation and training for hgv drivers is far greater than other parts of the world.

However, I've got a class C HGV license (anything not articulated basically) and during my training there was not much on cyclist specifically but you are told to check all mirrors all of the time. However there are big blind spots on lorries and many of the mirrors are wide angle e.t.c so a cyclist can seem very small and frequently goes in and out of view on a mirror. With all other vechials trying to over take you and cut you up because you are slow it's impossible to look into all mirrors at all times. I'm not saying lorry drivers are alway blame free but it's also not alway the lorry drivers fault.

Having said that the biggest mirror based problem is the lack of nearside front corner blind spot mirror on lorries. New lorries have to have them but they are not being retro fitted. This blind spot can easily loose a car let alone a bike.

Ghost bikes are an ongoing reminder to everyone who passes.
How many spots have you ridden past where people have been killed? your very route? what stops that from being you?

Was it because of faults in the lay out of the road? was it bad luck? i have seen a lot of near misses and the places these misses are frequent i ride accordingly (ed: like less of a twat) but instead of seeing near misses or accident aftermaths i'd prefer a safer reminder?

IMO White Bikes do that.

Also pays a mark of respect to those who weren't lucky. if their accident can cause one person to slow up at a bad junction and avoid an accident than i say job done

Due to threads like this whenever i see a HGV or something similar i back off, slow down or wait for it to pass.I think the only thing that has got me to act in that way is the death toll.

Me too. Used to be more ballsy round them but now I know what can happen I stay well away.

Why cant the HGV's all deliver thru the night? When the roads are quiet?

I'd hate to be a HGV driver in london, there are soo many idiots doing the wrong thing.

that lady that got run over on holloway road, walked her bike in front of the truck trying to get through the traffic :O

Me too. Used to be more ballsy round them but now I know what can happen I stay well away.

Why cant the HGV's all deliver thru the night? When the roads are quiet?

Most HGV traffic in London is construction I would say (no figures to back this up just from observations). Plus residents complain of noise so night deliveries.

i've seen a lot of those stickers on HGV's. they also have the "if you can't see my mirrors then i can't see you".

these stickers are misleading, because as you're undertaking a lorry you can see his mirrors. he still can't see you.
How about "If you can't see my face in my mirror then I can't see you"?
or "Stay out of my blind spots, or you may die."

The message needs to be strong, however there's a fine line between advice which may be heeded and prohibition which may be flaunted.

Spoke cards?
"Don't fuck with trucks" "If his wheels are bigger than your wheels, wait" etc. etc.
Some stats + bullet points and the diagram of the blind spots from a lorry cab at a junction.

Hundreds/thousands of them attached to every bike we see locked up on the street wherever we go.

Do the HGV's not indicate or something?