2008-09-24 - Rider Down/Fatality, Holborn

whilst I'm deeply sorry to hear of a death- and I used to work at Holborn Circus until recently, the problem is deep and wide: cyclists jumping lights/no lights/no brakes other than a fixed wheel/bars so narrow they're difficult to turn, unfortunately are what Joe Public see and have no sympathy for. (We know cars/buses/lorries jump lights too, but that's ignored 'cos they're rarely killed.....)

I don't think HGV driver wouldn't have driven over anyone, its not in the nature, and I'm sure HGV driver is shocked at events too.

Stickers on HGV's is good, banning HGV's in London in daytime I'd go along with, bloody bendy buses- the more that go on fire on their own, the more I'm pleased- they fool pedestrians as well as cyclists and cars.

So we come back to cyclists somehow being made not to go down the inside of HGV's, buses etc, and I can't think of way of that message getting through other than by witnessing what this thread is about- maybe a Telly ad may work as they seem to do for motor bike awareness?

Something needs doing for sure, and my money is on the CTC being effective here, but they need winding up to vent forth- now who's going to do that?

On a downside - I spoke to a guy today who witnessed the immediate aftermath of the accident this thread was originally about.

It appears that the lorry overtook the cyclist, and did a sharp left turn........not giving the cyclist enough time to stop. We know the rest. I was given further details of the how everything looked, but I won't share it. It was just bad.
This is brings it into sharp relief for me, and swings me more to Bill's way of thinking.

We can all feel in control of our destinies by thinking that our behaviour can save us from this awful death. Raise a bit of awareness, design a spoke card - all the while secretly thinking: this doesn't effect us; it's really for the benefit of those inexperienced fluro nodders. (And even worse, maybe actually that those victims somehow did something wrong that got them into the situation).

Bottom line is, no matter how experienced or proficient a cyclist you are, if a negligent HGV driver overtakes you and then turns into your path, you're toast. It just makes us feel better to think that we can have some control over the situation, rather than it being dumb luck that we get to our destinations in one piece.

Dunno what my point is really, other than to share some sort of epiphany: if I'm honest, I was labouring under the belief that this couldn't happen to me but in fact it's just a lottery that this was someone else and not me. So I guess Bill's right to take this to the hauliers rather than suggest its an indirect result of the actions of the cyclist.

Of course if a driver sets our to kill you your in troulble. But in terms of engaging with HGVs or any other road user we need to ride proactively, take ownership of the road and command how lane progressions and changes are made. That means being awake enough to know there is a truck coming behind you, moving into the lane so that it can't over take you. Of course they could just plow into you but thats murder, not an accident. Likewise make sure you are seen. Dont expect drivers to see you.. MAKE them see you.

For example, I get some funny looks for wearing my front light on my wrist, but it allows me to shine the light into mirrors (blinding drivers hahaha) making people aware of my presence, same with a bell.

Peace

This is brings it into sharp relief for me, and swings me more to Bill's way of thinking.

We can all feel in control of our destinies by thinking that our behaviour can save us from this awful death. Raise a bit of awareness, design a spoke card - all the while secretly thinking: this doesn't effect us; it's really for the benefit of those inexperienced fluro nodders. (And even worse, maybe actually that those victims somehow did something wrong that got them into the situation).

Bottom line is, no matter how experienced or proficient a cyclist you are, if a negligent HGV driver overtakes you and then turns into your path, you're toast. It just makes us feel better to think that we can have some control over the situation, rather than it being dumb luck that we get to our destinations in one piece.

Dunno what my point is really, other than to share some sort of epiphany: if I'm honest, I was labouring under the belief that this couldn't happen to me but in fact it's just a lottery that this was someone else and not me. So I guess Bill's right to take this to the hauliers rather than suggest its an indirect result of the actions of the cyclist.

That bit about dumb luck sums it up for me. I reworked my entire route to work as a result of one close encounter with an HGV that scared the shit out of me some years ago. The route I take now only mixes me with lorries for about 300 yards and I have a bus lane to ride in and they're stationary and won't be turning left.
Not everyone is that lucky to have a simple ride into work.

That bit about dumb luck sums it up for me. I reworked my entire route to work as a result of one close encounter with an HGV that scared the shit out of me some years ago. The route I take now only mixes me with lorries for about 300 yards and I have a bus lane to ride in and they're stationary and won't be turning left.
Not everyone is that lucky to have a simple ride into work.

AlexB, doesn't your post sum up how being a skilled and sensible rider massively reduces your exposure to danger?

I don't know why I'm posting in this thread... I'm just jinxing myself.

Peace

For example, I get some funny looks for wearing my front light on my wrist, but it allows me to shine the light into mirrors (blinding drivers hahaha) making people aware of my presence, same with a bell.

I am not sure of the benefit of blinding drivers?? I am really not sure of the benefit of a light on the wrist either but it is your choice.

I see a cyclist that has attached a couple of CDs to his rucksack. Apart from blinding anyone who is behind him it is not the best choice of visibility equipment. Thankfully the sun does not shine too often and his CDs have lost a lot of their shine.

his CDs have lost a lot of their shine.

Ah yes, the 'difficult third album' syndrome...

I am not sure of the benefit of blinding drivers?? I am really not sure of the benefit of a light on the wrist either but it is your choice.

I see a cyclist that has attached a couple of CDs to his rucksack. Apart from blinding anyone who is behind him it is not the best choice of visibility equipment. Thankfully the sun does not shine too often and his CDs have lost a lot of their shine.

VeeVee, obviously, and I'm surprised I need to spell this out, the "blinding" of drivers was a joke.

The benefit of wearing it on my wrist means I can direct where the light shines, so I can shine it in the window of taxis who have yet to see me, shine it in the direction of cars crossing my path etc.

Also, an undeniable benefit is the fact that I can legally have it flashing. If it is mounted on your bike you can't legally have it flashing. I discovered this when I was cycling through Mayfair the other night and a cop stepped out into the road and then said "Oh its on your wrist, carry on" so I stopped because I had no idea what he was saying and asked him. He said he'd been stopping people with a flashing front light mounted on their bike but since mine was on the wrist its fine.

Seriously, soon everyone is going to be doing this.

Peace

You are allowed to have flashing bike lights, the law has changed.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069837

Scaryeire, I thought you were joking and your idea might be a good one but I would like to have the views of drivers on this as to me flashing deliberately a light in their mirror might blind them to other things.

And yes you can have a flashing light on your bike.

Do you wear it on both wrists?

Also, an undeniable benefit is the fact that I can legally have it flashing. If it is mounted on your bike you can't legally have it flashing. I discovered this when I was cycling through Mayfair the other night and a cop stepped out into the road and then said "Oh its on your wrist, carry on" so I stopped because I had no idea what he was saying and asked him. He said he'd been stopping people with a flashing front light mounted on their bike but since mine was on the wrist its fine.

Don't suppose you got his badge number did you? It sounds like he needs some education.

Yeah...I believe that this was covered off by vinylvillain

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread5856.html

No?

I'm Scandinavian and we have them all over the place. They're fantastic. Also look at Berlin - double lanes on each side of the road...doesn't get better.

I dunno, it just seems that the UK is unwilling to look to other countries with better safety laws /records.

Germany and Scandinavia are both underpopulated and have loads of space.

London however is one of the busiest places in the world. With the state of congestion , cycles are already easily the most effective means of transport. And if riders just have a little patience, most accidents could easily be avoided.

Cycle lanes do not equal safety, all traffic being aware and cautious of each other does.

Ah yes, the 'difficult third album' syndrome...

That's top drawer.