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• #152
Let's not forget his own disciples had massive problems getting their heads around stuff like "If someone strikes your right cheek, offer them your left". His sideman ended up massively forgetting that one and setting about someone with a sword if I remember.
This was why Christianity has always been to radical! Remember when those Amish girls were murdered and the Amish went to the funeral of their murderer so that they could console his family. These people have anything but fragile egos and you can dismiss their faith as superstitious nonsense but they get enormous strength from it.
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• #153
Tynan I'm sorry but i am a very careful poster - you are only reiterating what i have said, not disagreeing with me. These are all either precepts or developments. Jesus sought to dismantle much of the Jewish teachings in place (ie the Old Testament).
Nonesense !
This is just a claim that Christians use to avoid dealing with the malevolent atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by god. People are constantly feed the line that the Old Testament is no longer true/the word of god/valid/binding so that they can excuse the sheer breathless evil that the bible promotes.
. . . .
The Old Testament should not be ignored, it's laws are not to be ignored or avoided, the New Testament demands it, Jesus says so himself.
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).
Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other than Jesus said so.
All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)
Jesus has a punishment even worse than god concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)
Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18
“...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35
. . . .
And, as I am sure you know, most of those references to hatered and malevolnce towards homosexuality where from the new testament !
Honestly, this Jesus fellow is a terrible old cock.
The developers of his ideas had to harness the scant records of his teachings and apply them to the real world - your few references here are good examples of these.
In the interests of brevity and to save me from RSI :) I put up a just few of the bizarre, cruel and malevolent parts of this dreadful book, I could, if you want, list hundreds of examples of the sheer barbarity and cruelty sanctioned by the Bible.
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• #154
I was actually remarkabley calm, didnt even swear at him, he was mortified when I had told him he's hit me, he apologised profusely and said he hadnt seen me, I then gave him a lecture on the merits of using wing mirrors and indicators and sent him on his way urging him to be more careful or you could kill someone next time.
I was kinda suprised I didnt call him a cunt and take his wing mirror off...maybe I would have done if he hadnt of been completely passive.Clefty, what are you doing talking about bike issues in our 'god' thread ? ;p
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• #155
do I hear a little cock crowing or am I just imagining it
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• #156
(John7:19) Moses gave you the law, didn't he? Yet none of you is keeping the law.
This I think that you are taking out of context and using to back up your own arguement something that those contemptious old preachers had a tendancy to do.
The actual quote is
(John7:19) Moses gave you the law, didn't he? Yet none of you is keeping the law. Why are you trying to kill me?"
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• #157
“For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).
Actual quotations is
"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ"
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• #158
"Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)
Actual quotation in lay terms is something like this
Then Jesus said to them: "You think you are smart! You ignore the commands of God so that you can follow your own teachings! Moses said, 'You must honor (respect) your father and mother.' Then Moses also said, 'Any person that says bad things to his father or mother must be killed.' But you teach that a person can say to his father or mother, 'I have something I could use to help you. But I will not use it to help you. I will give it to God.' You are telling that person that he does not have to do anything for his father or mother. So you are teaching that it is not important to do what God said. You think that it is more important to follow those rules you teach people. And you do many things like that."
Need I go on, cherry picking the Bible to back a fallacious arguement is as old as the hills
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• #159
I was actually remarkabley calm, didnt even swear at him, he was mortified when I had told him he's hit me, he apologised profusely and said he hadnt seen me, I then gave him a lecture on the merits of using wing mirrors and indicators and sent him on his way urging him to be more careful or you could kill someone next time.
I was kinda suprised I didnt call him a cunt and take his wing mirror off...maybe I would have done if he hadnt of been completely passive.Clefty, you're totally off subject
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• #160
what is the bible position on cyclists going through red lights?
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• #161
what is the bible position on cyclists going through red lights?
Smite them.
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• #162
"Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)
Actual quotation in lay terms is something like this
Then Jesus said to them: "You think you are smart! You ignore the commands of God so that you can follow your own teachings! Moses said, 'You must honor (respect) your father and mother.' Then Moses also said, 'Any person that says bad things to his father or mother must be killed.' But you teach that a person can say to his father or mother, 'I have something I could use to help you. But I will not use it to help you. I will give it to God.' You are telling that person that he does not have to do anything for his father or mother. So you are teaching that it is not important to do what God said. You think that it is more important to follow those rules you teach people. And you do many things like that."
Need I go on, cherry picking the Bible to back a fallacious arguement is as old as the hills
OK i am 10mins from the first pint of the week so its brief.. That passage really doesn't sell the bearded wonder.
*Then Jesus said to them: "You think you are smart!
He starts by putting them downYou ignore the commands of God so that you can follow your own teachings!
So God knows more about daily life of these folk than they do.. ok God when is goat ripe for slaughter?? no.. ok I caught Heifer masturbating with a spoon what should i do?? still no?? find a bearded man.. no women.. okMoses said, 'You must honor (respect) your father and mother.' Then Moses also said, 'Any person that says bad things to his father or mother must be killed.'
***Uses the words of another to strike fear, displacing the blame
But you teach that a person can say to his father or mother, 'I have something I could use to help you. But I will not use it to help you. I will give it to God.'
Kids putting God above their parents...Come on?!? *Name me one thing...***You are telling that person that he does not have to do anything for his father or mother.
***Thats a little presumptions big J. have you taken an active part in the upbringing of all the children of those gathered to listen to you. some kind of a social worker??
So you are teaching that it is not important to do what God said. You think that it is more important to follow those rules you teach people. And you do many things like that."
*This.. now this is the best bit. **Finish on an almighty sweeping statement, it went from the respect of a child to all what God Said and ends on "you do many things like that" he might just have well ended on "Innit"Now i was going to call him a cock..but he has only gone and proved me wrong by riding a fixie!
Amen
**
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• #163
Need I go on, cherry picking the Bible to back a fallacious arguement is as old as the hills
er.. I can only say +1 here Tynan, maybe not with the fallacious bit, I've never been into blowjobs.
This massive response you've sent, unless you are a one-time-Southern-evangleist-turned-loather, surely isn't all flicked to and referenced by you on the spot. there are thousands of websites refuting Christianity and Islam etc. using these techniques. There are several people on Speakers' Corner every Sunday who do this. And they don't want to listen to anyone point out things like "context". You basically load up on gleaned selective quotes whose isolation distorts the fuller picture and hope that the bombardment of the other person with these will unsettle them as they scrabble for purchase in the face of seemingly iron-clad arguments. In reality - and this is why I said it wasn't the time or place, and that I was reluctant to have the conv - is that replying to this is a really lengthy process as it involves many pages of context.
I know the new testament fairly well as I was beaten with it regularly as a child (not really) and I reject a lot of what you say here - they are massively edited and don't consitute intelligent interpretation, just a fitting of words to a standpoint. It is how it is; I assure you these are reappropriated and not fully quoted.
On the flip side, I found a website a few months ago which claimed to be Christian which gave quotes and interpretations of the bible in order to justify three-in-a-beds in marriage, anal sex, bondage etc. - hilarious and disturbing and pitiful in so many ways that i was exhausted trying to work through what it could all mean. It remains one of the most enigmatic things I've ever found on the web. Thoroughly enjoyable, though.
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• #164
Pajamas +1
this is the weirdest website i know
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• #165
I'm not clicking on that for fear of losing my job and having a spell at her majesty's pleasure.
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• #166
lfgss - london's for god's sake seminar...or something
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• #167
it amazes me how evangelical agnostics can get on your ass...
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• #168
I'll get my coat.
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• #169
Pajamas +1
this is the weirdest website i know
http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/WTF! I can't stop looking at it! sooo much stretchy green fabric!
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• #170
this is superbly bewildering though, whether you're into the whole religion thing or not.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/
Christ on a bike!!!
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• #171
okay after Greasyslag I did look at it Vee.
You're right. That's weird.
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• #172
Need I go on, cherry picking the Bible to back a fallacious arguement is as old as the hills
Absolutely, any quote form the bible you can open up further and further until you included the whole book.
The reason I closed them down to how they are is that these are the parts that point to the law being sacrosanct. Opening them up and leveling a contextual argument does not change that.
But yes I completely agree that this nonesense can be cherry picked, interpreted and twisted to say or justify anything you would wish.
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• #173
I can't decide which set of photos I prefer.
http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/photo_closeups_pp7.htm -
• #174
This is so sweet, it just might make your TEETH hurt!
http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/photo_closeups_gsf.htm -
• #175
this is superbly bewildering though, whether you're into the whole religion thing or not.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/
Christ on a bike!!!
Yeah you're right your website beats my peter pan any day!
Ok, I can see why you would pick up on things like the golden rule (which pre-dates Christianity) - love your neighbor and so on - but can I take it that when Jesus, for example, instructs on how hard to beat your slaves - sanctions the brutal beating to the point of fatal injury - or when Jesus sends demons into a herd of pigs, killing them as they run off a cliff and drown - or when he says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other - "come not to send peace, but a sword." - or when he condemns entire cities to horrific deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't follow his preaching - when you see these less appealing things do you rule them out, simply brush them off as metaphor, lay authorship elsewhere or just ignore them ?
There is a point I am trying to get at here !
Your words not mine.
My contempt for religion extends why beyond the lunatic fringe beyond it's 'worst applications', moderatism brings with it it's own inherent problems. I hold contempt for the whole spectrum of supernatural belief.