2008-07-11 - Rider Down, NW11

Not if you're American, it ain't!
Offense, defense, realize, initialize, center, theater, favorite, color, ta-MAY-toe, 'errrrrb... so there!

Oh, and just to pre-empt the people who will inevitably reply that there's an "H" in "herb"... there's an "H" in "honest" as well.

Thank you, I study at an American University and I have to write papers in American I have lost my ability to differentiate

I take it you have not read the bible ? I am being serous here, apologies if I appear sarcastic I don't mean to be !! :) (it is hard on a forum to ask direct questions like this without sounding sarcastic!)

"(i.e. don't kill people, don't steal their shit, don't rape people etc etc etc)"

Are you honestly telling me that the bible does not sanction killing / murder (I am sticking with the Hebrew 'ratsach' for this little controversy!), rape, genocide, torture, human sacrifice, infanticide, patricide, the killing of homosexuals, slavery, sexual slavery etc etc ?!?!

Seriously ?

Anyhow, when he (Pajamamamamas) said Jesus' teachings were/are good rules, my question would be from where is he reading this ?

Is he saying that in the Bible Jesus lays down good rules for us to follow - or are these rules exobiblical ?

Simply, is he getting these rules/guides from the Bible ?

oh i get it.. no, I am distinguishing Jesus's teachings from the Bible as a whole, which anyone should do. The Bible is divided into Old Testament which is largely of Jewish origin and is included as a foundation for the culture and teachings Jesus was working from within. The New Testament is his teachings and the early attempts to develop them by others. Even some of those developments I have a problem with and are the start of the problems in my opinion - but it's very difficult to fuck with the Jesus...

and yeah, I would say there are subtleties in his teachings which go way beyond being merely exobiblical or common sense / decency.

oh dear I'm sounding like a proper "Jesus is Magic".. I think I just know a bit about it to for once disagree with someone and say, "hmmm, no I don't think he is a cock." The fact that the knowledge I have comes from a Catholic background I have major problems with I would hope is proof I ain't a religious nut - however, I think I'm with Smiling Buddha on the pisstaking/contempt thing. The idiots in most situations in life make the reast of us look bad - lots of people find a religious structure in their lives help them to be better people, not more closed. The simple work a lot of people do through their religious bases (soup runs, care for the elderly etc.) cannot be fucked with and taken the piss out of. Yep it's possible to do that off your own back as an aetheist - it doesn't change the fact Hare Krishna, Muslims, Jews, Christians etc. all work co-operatively side by side in the real world to help those in need - all in the name of their religious convictions.

Unusually heavy postings from the pajamas.

Jewish People are great until you start doing business with them..,...

that, me old son, is racist.

HTFU.
Hip hop slave bike.
racist.
Off the peg.
Negative shim.
Arrospok.

I think that is everything ?

NoBrakesTM

Religion has no place in the Western world in the 21st Century. It belongs in the caves and deserts from whence it was born. Anyone stupid enough to believe that god/jesus/mo/the other geezer will come and save/redeem/burn us is well worth avoiding in my view. And that includes my long departed gran!

Religion has no place in the Western world in the 21st Century. It belongs in the caves and deserts from whence it was born. Anyone stupid enough to believe that god/jesus/mo/the other geezer will come and save/redeem/burn us is well worth avoiding in my view. And that includes my long departed gran!

granist

She's in heaven now.

She's in heaven now.

no shes in hell. she was an evil old witch

sorry gran you were great really

oh i get it.. no, I am distinguishing Jesus's teachings from the Bible as a whole, which anyone should do. The Bible is divided into Old Testament which is largely of Jewish origin and is included as a foundation for the culture and teachings Jesus was working from within. The New Testament is his teachings and the early attempts to develop them by others. Even some of those developments I have a problem with and are the start of the problems in my opinion - but it's very difficult to fuck with the Jesus...and yeah, I would say there are subtleties in his teachings which go way beyond being merely exobiblical or common sense / decency.

In America all the protestant Churches focus far more on the teaching of the old testament than the new do you have any idea why this is as it seems rather counterintuitive to me ..

btw forgive me if I'm demonstrating a lack of thoroughness in my thread reading - posting in straitened circumstances with a lot less time than usual. I'll enjoy reading this later tonight.

Religion has no place in the Western world in the 21st Century. It belongs in the caves and deserts from whence it was born. Anyone stupid enough to believe that god/jesus/mo/the other geezer will come and save/redeem/burn us is well worth avoiding in my view. And that includes my long departed gran!

Buddhism came from under a tree an India

In America all the protestant Churches focus far more on the teaching of the old testament than the new do you have any idea why this is as it seems rather counterintuitive to me ..

yeah it does seem that way - intriguing.

I hesitate to say this but - possibly because it more closely suits their needs?

catholics do it too. I've yet to see a convincing illustration that Jesus was provably against homosexuality but Catholicism is against it etc.

sorry gran you were great really

ha! ha! lovely backing up there...

So... we started with a chap being knocked of his bike and now we are in a 'belief' war..... I love how these threads twist and turn!

EDIT: Oh, and a granny hating ;)

there's only a few things get people out of the woodwork like this - yet again I have failed miserably to keep my opinions to myself.

To be fair though I wade in about anything, even shit I know fuck all about.

It's called loving the look of your own type I think. I stopped loving the sound of my own voice ages ago, I come from Barnsley.

tynan I think you may have read living asleep's truncated sentence and missed a negative which turned the sense into the positive...or something...

I think you might be right ! :)

What reference are you using to say his teachings were/are good rules ?
By that I mean what teachings are you referring to ?

[EDIT]. . . . I'm assuming a general sense of what's accepted as "right" and "wrong", given that much of the world seems to be in agreement regardless of religious peruasion, and Jesus's position as an originator of teachings rather than a figure cooked up by a religious sect to propogate their own ideas.

I got a bit lost in that lot !

You say the teachings of Jesus' teachings are a good set of rules - but you have not said where you are getting these rules from ? Have you got this set of rules from the Bible or elsewhere ?

(Sorry if I am being a bit slow here !)

there's only a few things get people out of the woodwork like this - yet again I have failed miserably to keep my opinions to myself.

To be fair though I wade in about anything, even shit I know fuck all about.

It's called loving the look of your own type I think. I stopped loving the sound of my own voice ages ago, I come from Barnsley.

To be fair, I dont think you are alone on that. I spout all sorts of bollox. But I do believe that about religion. Not my gran though - She was great, bloody religious though!

So in your world view this bloke needs to get over himself

I have no clue what the picture is about (the teddy bear fiasco?) ? What is your question ?

I'm not American, and this is essentially a London forum, and I don't like US realization* of English due to laziness or ignorance on the part of English English speakers.

• the use of 'z' was originally an English thing, and still preferred by the OED.
  
  

racizt

NoBrakesTM

Bollocks !, missed that one.

Jesus' teachings were not a set of rules. Jesus was all about moving man away from the rules of the law.

yeah it does seem that way - intriguing.

I hesitate to say this but - possibly because it more closely suits their needs?

catholics do it too. I've yet to see a convincing illustration that Jesus was provably against homosexuality but Catholicism is against it etc.

The bible is littered with malevolence towards homosexuals ? Sodom and Gomorrah anyone ?

Genesis:

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

God says not be bring any whore, sodomite, or dog into the house of the Lord. For "these things are an abomination to the Lord." 23:17-18

Romans:

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

Corinthians:

Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10

Timothy:

Homosexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included on the list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

I think you might be right ! :)

I got a bit lost in that lot !

You say the teachings of Jesus' teachings are a good set of rules - but you have not said where you are getting these rules from ? Have you got this set of rules from the Bible or elsewhere ?

(Sorry if I am being a bit slow here !)

no I'm not writing from my usual lair. hence spelling / massive-lengthed sentencing problems.

in answer - 1) the beatitudes; 2) the parables. 3) shit he did in social situations. They all confounded the expectations of his audiences, his sceptics and even his followers. Let's not forget his own disciples had massive problems getting their heads around stuff like "If someone strikes your right cheek, offer them your left". His sideman ended up massively forgetting that one and setting about someone with a sword if I remember.

look, basically I do know loads of shit about this but I'm with you on religion in its worst applications - but there's always corruption and evil. You can turn many many things around in life to be evil rather than good - that's why at the moment I stick to things I believe are incorruptable, like music and bikes. Very very heavy I know, but in doing this I am still lacking something - in a way, I am just a hedonist with rather inoffensive delights. I still don't get involved in helping others and doing good to the level of many people whose religious views - in their totality - I find abhorrent.

Great thread though.

The bible is littered with malevolence towards homosexuals ? Sodom and Gomorrah anyone ?

Genesis:

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

God says not be bring any whore, sodomite, or dog into the house of the Lord. For "these things are an abomination to the Lord." 23:17-18

Romans:

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

Corinthians:

Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10

Timothy:

Homosexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included on the list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

Tynan I'm sorry but i am a very careful poster - you are only reiterating what i have said, not disagreeing with me. These are all either precepts or developments. Jesus sought to dismantle much of the Jewish teachings in place (ie the Old Testament). The developers of his ideas had to harness the scant records of his teachings and apply them to the real world - your few references here are good examples of these. I have always had a problem with Paul's shit - incredibly articulate, dazzlingly intelligent, yet a one-man mission in shaping much of the early church to his own vision. Without Paul it's debatable that Christianity would have survived - and beyond these quotes there is much that is of massive importance to the modern world. But amazingly these few sentances are used to prove the whole Christian attitude towards homosexuality - from both sides of the arguent. Yes Christian, but not all from the mouth of Christ......

I had exactly the same thing happen on Clapham High St last Sat, luckily he didnt take me off - otherwise I prob would have been in a similar state, I caught up with the bastard and he was completely oblivious to the fact that he had even hit me.

a comment from yesterday's times

Ok cyclists, why should I have to put up with this....
I'm sitting in a queue of traffic at a red light, minding my own business when along side me rides a cyclist who stops beside me and puches my wing mirror so that it folds away and gives me a load of verbals. Hadn't even overtaken him. Why??

rick, manchester,

I was actually remarkabley calm, didnt even swear at him, he was mortified when I had told him he's hit me, he apologised profusely and said he hadnt seen me, I then gave him a lecture on the merits of using wing mirrors and indicators and sent him on his way urging him to be more careful or you could kill someone next time.
I was kinda suprised I didnt call him a cunt and take his wing mirror off...maybe I would have done if he hadnt of been completely passive.