Epic fail

Hopefully Nepal will start a London Marathon style lottery for permits at some point. The numbers clearly have to be limited.

a London Marathon style lottery

With charity places & a set of records for fkt's dressed as superheroes & in flippers etc.

The numbers clearly have to be limited.

Qualified based on prior mountain experience = evidence based & self limiting at that point if set appropriately.

Fuck me this is grim

More money than sense ... people think its some sort of ultra adventure package holiday when it is one of the most deadly environments on the planet , even the most experienced climbers have died
On Everest . It’s the Sherpa’s I feel sorry for as they are being exploited so that rich idiots can get bragging rights at the next dinner party ...
If you go up and die then it is no ones fault but your own , if you are willing to pay loads of money for the experience, then there are always people who will facilitate your egotistical stupidity .
In the end you have to take responsibility for your own actions

A couple of the guides I use in the Alps are world class alpinists with several first routes on 8000m'ers in the Himalaya. Both find the idea of navigating the Everest circus a huge turn off.

“ a huge turn off” classic understatement.....

Just read that “ heights of madness “ article , unfortunately it backs up my first post .
For many years climbers frozen solid bodies have been used a way points on the routes up and
Down the mountain , as it was always to dangerous to recover them , I understand a big effort by both the Chinese and Nepal governments in the last couple of years has been made to recover them .

It's up to the Nepalese authorities how they want to do it, but I feel the whole Ayn Rand spirit could be firmly rooted out if one set one's mind to it. To get a climbing permit should involve entering into some sort of a syndicate with legal obligations to carry extra oxygen, radios etc in case of emergencies. You could only enter the syndicate if you have the strength to support a fellow climber with injuries. There could be legal obligations to abandon your summit attempt if you saw a person in distress, and potential criminal persecution if you continue to the top after encountering a dying climber like Ms Shuttlesworth admitted to doing.
As for bragging rights, I think having taken part in such high pressure team work would be much more admirable.

The wikipedia article on David Sharp has plenty of details. There is a lot of truth in the argument that he brought his misfortune on himself, so I have some understanding towards those who effectively declined to help him, or only offered a few minutes worth of consolation before moving on. But it is also a fact that a man sat dying for hours while up to 40 other climbers passed right by him. I reckon it is a disgrace to us all that this phenomenon exists in its current state.

I'm really no expert on super high altitude climbing but I'm not sure there are any climbers strong enough to help somebody stuck above 8,000m. It's just not possible. I can only think of two climber mounted rescues on Everest, none above camp 3. I mean, helicopters can't even fly at that altitude.

The way I see it is that no mountaineer should climb if they have the expectation that somebody else will risk their life to save them. You're on your own.

I wouldn't walk over the "bridges" on the two week trek to base camp:

"There's no hand rail, can we go back please CALL THE EMBASSY"

I'd use all my oxygen on that bridge.

You could only enter the syndicate if you have the strength to support a fellow climber with injuries.

Yeah I think you are making an assumption that rescue is actually possible. I suspect it isn’t.

I suspect it isn’t.

Not when everyone’s looking after no.1 but if 40 people had passed a dying man, imagine if each of them had managed to move him even 10 metres.
400m down from the summit I bet makes a massive difference

surely if he's dying best to move him further up the mountain so he gets closer to achieving his life's goal?

Then he will die 400m from where he would have died - and 40 people will have risked their lives for nothing.

An extra twenty minutes above 8,000m is enough to kill you. As we've seen in the last week.

Yes I understand but 10m isn’t far. Even if some people helped him in pairs a few m at a time.
Say what you will about risking your own life or whatever but if you go past somebody dying and you’re still on your way up, you’re risking your life continuing so save a fellow human being rather than stroking your ego

I believe that on the final climb if you get in to a position where you need help you will die. You cannot be saved using the existing equipment and technology we have. You might as well be on the moon.

I think this is one of the factors that drive people to climb it.

I don’t believe any one of those climbers that walked past the dying man didn’t wish they could save him but had they tried they too would have died.

Have you experienced hypoxia before? What you are suggesting just isn't possible in those conditions.

I mean, I know a guy who won a gallantry award for conducting the highest ever helicopter rescue. From memory, the climbers were just over 7,000m, 1.8km below the top of Everest. To get their helicopter that high they had to strip seats and drain fuel to make it light enough.

Edit: when I say know a guy, I mean he flew me in his helicopter once. Should really have said "met".

They got the bloke down who lost his nose by helicopter from base camp, him and a sherpa:

https://allthatsinteresting.com/beck-weathers

No I haven’t and I understand all of what you’re saying. I know if you’re dying up there you’re probably dead. All I’m saying is if I was walking up and I was 30 minutes from the top, I would spend 30 minutes trying to save a life rather than walking on. If you have to leave them and continue down without them then so be it, at least you tried but to walk past whilst you’re still on your way up is just saying well they won’t make it anyway so fuck em I wanna climb this big hill. And if everyone thinks that way then yeah the dying dude is fucked.
I’d rather help try to save a life however futile than reach the top of a mountain for nothing but a sense of achievement.
A life.
An achievement.

Hollywood ftw.

I’d rather help try to save a life however futile than reach the top of a mountain for nothing but a sense of achievement.

Well, this is the thing. Some people, a small number, do help. It's personal choice. I've never been higher than 5,000m so I have no direct experience but I suspect I'd be a pass on by sort of chap.

For what it's worth, everybody is dying at that altitude. You're on a countdown timer and you don't know when yours will run out.

Base camp is at 6,000mish I think.

It's a crazy story. Remember it being in the papers in 1996.

It’s definitely to each their own.
It’s something I always thought I’d train for and attempt at some point in my life but it seems pretty unattractive seeing all the queues and hearing of people dying due to overcrowding and not being able to descend in time, as you say absolutely everyone will be dead given enough time up there and not much time at that.