South London Beers: Reboot - Last Thursday of the Month at The Prince Regent, Herne Hill, SE24

What's the big deal about the extinction of a species? Who suffers?

Good question, I am guilty of assuming that vegans would prefer not to end a species to further their agenda.

I resent the fact that you have assumed that because of my diet I can't make as big an ass out of myself.

I'll have you know I am one angry vegan.

hahahah, touche.

I don't like cattle and would be happy to have a few left in zoos, but that's another story.

Let's take your victorian maid, make her have kids, then kill her and eat her. Then let's do the same to her children. Seems like an awesome deal, no?

Let's take this. I've heard that some people have rules where they allow themselves to eat some foods containing animal products so long as it's only a tiny percent...does this still make them vegans?

I never eat spiders, knowngly. i hate spiders, even though I know they are my friends.

Funny fact: Lincoln is deathly afraid of spiders.

^ wtf*?!?

• @ everyone...
  

But if they go round a mates house they'd be quite happy to sit on their leather sofa

...or sit in a car that has leather seats

I've never met any vegans who would be bothered by this sort of thing. I wouldn't want a leather sofa in my house, but I'm not going to be ridiculously unsociable and refuse to sit on a leather sofa. These extreme cases don't really tell you a lot about what's important and positive about veganism.

What if they use make-up that may have been used on monkeys or beagles?

I wouldn't, but from having done a little voluntary work for the BUAV I know that it's an extremely complex issue. I still use toiletries that are probably tested on animals. So what? I already do a lot that I'm happy and proud about. There's no need to be absolutist or fall apart from trying to get too many things right. I'll simply wait for more people to become vegan, as that will mean that the more remote objectives (for me--for some people, campaigning against animal experimentation is their number one priority, whereas I'm more concerned with nutrition) can be achieved.

I've heard that some people have rules where they allow themselves to eat some foods containing animal products so long as it's only a tiny percent...does this still make them vegans?

It depends on what you mean. As I mentioned above, I don't have a problem if something contains trace animal products owing to being produced in the same factory. I think that's vegan--a pragmatic vegan, perhaps, but vegan. Unless someone has done a really sloppy job of cleaning machinery, it's not going to make a great deal of difference.

On the other hand, if someone said, for instance, that they would eat a dish because it only contained a tiny amount of meat (perhaps anchovies) as part of the recip,e then, no, that wouldn't be vegan.

Speaking of which, I have just jump started my old birthday thread. I wanted to mention it here as well, as you are all invited.

I've never met any vegans who would be bothered by this sort of thing. I wouldn't want a leather sofa in my house, but I'm not going to be ridiculously unsociable and refuse to sit on a leather sofa. These extreme cases don't really tell you a lot about what's important and positive about veganism.

I wouldn't, but from having done a little voluntary work for the BUAV I know that it's an extremely complex issue. I still use toiletries that are probably tested on animals. So what? I already do a lot that I'm happy and proud about. There's no need to be absolutist or fall apart from trying to get too many things right. I'll simply wait for more people to become vegan, as that will mean that the more remote objectives (for me--for some people, campaigning against animal experimentation is their number one priority, whereas I'm more concerned with nutrition) can be achieved.

It depends on what you mean. As I mentioned above, I don't have a problem if something contains trace animal products owing to being produced in the same factory. I think that's vegan--a pragmatic vegan, perhaps, but vegan. Unless someone has done a really sloppy job of cleaning machinery, it's not going to make a great deal of difference.

On the other hand, if someone said, for instance, that they would eat a dish because it only contained a tiny amount of meat (perhaps anchovies) as part of the recip,e then, no, that wouldn't be vegan.

Then you'd never be able to taste the delights of Worcestershire Sauce :-(

I don't like cattle and would be happy to have a few left in zoos, but that's another story.

Let's take your victorian maid, make her have kids, then kill her and eat her. Then let's do the same to her children. Seems like an awesome deal, no?

The example there was of the relationship that it is possible to have where care given is equal to renumeration.

I woudl imagine that eating your maid would lead to a problem hiring a new one.

Obviously things fall down when one anthropamorphises them- but this is the essential problem with veganism in many ways, it stops seeing animals as animals and accords them with human attributes- feelings, thoughts etc.

Nerve endings, that's all I'm saying.

In any case, I need to scoot off, lots of moving to do!

Then you'd never be able to taste the delights of Worcestershire Sauce :-(

There are plenty of vegan Worcestershire sauces around--you don't need the animal ingredient to make it taste good. Purists won't be amused, as it's obviously a change in recipe, but it's still recognisably Worcestershire sauce. Mind you, there are a few crap ones on the market, too.

There are plenty of vegan Worcestershire sauces around--you don't need the animal ingredient to make it taste good. Purists won't be amused, as it's obviously a change in recipe, but it's still recognisably Worcestershire sauce. Mind you, there are a few crap ones on the market, too.

Pfffff, there is only ONE Worcestershire sauce! FACT!

It's interesting to look at the language as the vegans will tell you that any relationship we have with a food animal is abusive or exploitative- emotive words that have an immediate impact.

However the situation is similar to that of a Maid of All work- a Victorian position where the salary was often "All found", meaning bed, board and living expenses such as clothing and so forth.

i.e. it is not exploitation as the animal is compensated- with it's life, board, vetinary attention and so forth, and most crucially the ability to have progeny that continue it's line into the future.

That it is slaughtered and eaten at a point in it's life is part of the implicit contract between farmer and animal, part of the terms of payment if you will for the life that it has led up until that point.

I think that you could make a very strong argument for it being immoral not to eat an animal that had been raised and slaughtered specifically for food.

There are so many interesting points in this that it'll take me a while to compose a reply, but be afraid, be very afraid, it's coming. :)

Pfffff, there is only ONE Worcestershire sauce! FACT!

Purist.

Funny fact: Lincoln is deathly afraid of spiders.

What, every single resident of Lincoln?

Are you allowed to eat Pecan nuts though as I heard they come from Peacocks?

I actually really like vegan worcesershire sauce, I used to carry it around in my bag when I had a teeny weeny bloody mary problem.

Are meat eaters allowed to eat veggie burgers?

Teeny weeny bloody mary problem.. yep, I've been there, puked it on my pukes on flamin' cock Tshirt...

There are so many interesting points in this that it'll take me a while to compose a reply, but be afraid, be very afraid, it's coming. :)

I'm now imagining a post of such size that it must be created at the lagrange point between the earth and the moon lest it be torn apart by it's own gravity.

I bet it boils down to "I, Oliver, am more moral than you, the evil meat eater, but that is ok because I forgive you for being an idiot".

Are scissors made from animals?
This would explain Oliver's otherwise inexplicable attachment to the ponytail.

Are scissors made from animals?
This would explain Oliver's otherwise inexplicable attachment to the ponytail.

Post Of The Day!

mmmm vegan popcorn

pah.
vegetarians. i've shit 'em.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLgB_e_aROw&feature=related