Wanted: Someone to build me some wheels

He said he did mouse's rear. Twice.

A handjob too?

kowalski He said he did mouse's rear. Twice.

but his rim was so dirty he kept having to polish it

RPM [quote]kowalski He said he did mouse's rear. Twice.

but his rim was so dirty he kept having to polish it[/quote]
Keep it clean. Keep it machined.

mouse's first rim was filthy, my hands were covered in muck!!

well I hope you washed them before eating!

Good call, RPM.

Never eat a dirty rim.

christ, this is dirty.

we are men who chat to each other on the interweb, what you expect.

PS if you look like this i'll do it for free?!

Somebody stuck a bit of a man in the middle of her..

gimmie a break, it was a quick google image of a fit chic!

and what do people think about Dia Compe Gran comp track hubs?

also, me and Mashton were thinking about having a go at building one each of my two wheels, coz he wants to learn and so do I now...

but obviously we'll need a pair of capable hands to check that we're doing it right.

Oh god, please don't go there. We really are just good friends.

sorry, i do not look like that.

looks like i'll be paying then

dia-comp a good middle road hubs. happy to help.

at least the chic i posted looks like a chic!

i'm just cooling this thread off, that image should put the thought of sex far from all of our minds.

well, she does quite look like a chick, but also quite like a man too, but she seems happy with that, so, good on her.

your help would be greatly appreciated.. was planning to attend west end drinks, but as i've just noticed that's prob not on now... so next time.

Hey beth didn't know you needed to know these things. Should have asked. I'll email you some stuff x perlierides ad

1.Wheels consist of....

2.hubs

3.spokes

4.rims
dictate spoke tension, higher tyre pressures, more inherent rigidity

5.labour
Practice practice practice... a craftsman's hand, a systematic approach and a lot of love. -no beer necessary

1. You want your wheels as light as poss. particularly at the outer extremities to minimize rolling mass ie: centrifugal force. Therefore light spokes, rim, tyre. Obviously not 'pringled' or 'buckled' but also probably more importantly not 'pear' shaped either. If the wheel is pear shaped
   1.the distance between the edge of the rim and the centre of the axle varies. this means your lifted and dropped every revolution of the wheel. waste of energy, inefficient, bad. combine this with the tug of ....
   2.inbalance in centrifugal force. Pear shape not good.
   
   

All very hard to get right, impossible to get perfect but this is out goal anyway.

Spoke pattern is important and is usually dictated by the conditions the wheel is to be exposed to.
Radial looks nice and is light but doesn't deal with torsional loads very well. Ideal for a front wheel with no braking duties such as a front track wheel. Three cross, 4x or 2x for wheels that need to take a torsional load, particularly fixed and disc brake wheels. Typically 3x but depending upon rim/hub flange diameter 2x sometimes 4x - 4x kinda overkill though. what we're aiming for in terms of strength is spokes that exit the hubs' flange at a 90 degree angle. ...it gets technical aahhr... That's where rim/hub flange diameter comes into it. A small Brompton wheel with a big ol' sturmey hub will attain the magic 90 with a 2x. A 700c or 622 (road size wheel) will attain the magic 90 with a large ish flanged hub and a 3x pattern.

God there's so much to spoke lengths, patterns etc. and so dependent on your weight, riding requirements, service/ durability/performance requirements.... As a rule of thumb, a traditional 3x pattern for the rear wheel and whatever you like on the front.

1. There are well designed hubs out there and bad etc..
   Low weight and silkie smooth bearing surfaces - (minimal friction), rigidity and durability are what makes a good hub. Freewheels are also a big issue to some but a bit of a taboo I guess round these parts.
   
   

Good engineering theory dictates the further the bearing races are spaced on either side of the hub, the longer it's gonna take to develop play (loosen up). The more polished and harder the surface the more reduced the friction and more prolonged the service life.

Hub spacing. The dropouts of frames have different spaces between them.
Big flange = Torsionally stronger hub. That makes it good for fixed, tandem, disc...
More holes in a hubs' flange the more spokes. More spokes = more weight, less force on each spoke so higher spoke tensions can be attained= stronger wheel.

Flip flop means you can have sprockets on both sides of the hub so you can 'flip' it over and alternate between different ratios or fixed/freewheel. Flip flops will state 'fixed free' or 'fix fix'. The thread that the sprocket threads onto is different for fixed and freewheeling sprockets. 'Fix fix' is therefore fixed gear on both sides and 'fix free' is... yep.

Cup, Cone Vs Sealed cartridge... Again massive topic
No.1 both can be replaced, serviced
No.2 both can be well or poorly sealed against muck
No.3 If not looked after both systems can develop play and kill the hub

conclusion: There are well designed hubs out there and bad etc.. both cone and sealed. I like sealed cos you don't have to keep your beadies on them the whole time. Lock rings tend to loosen off cones and the inexperienced probably will struggle attaining the optimum bearing tension. Most of us use our bikes day to day and value a degree of user friendliness over a slight -SLIGHT- sacrifice in performance only at the HIGHEST level - which is debatable anyway. At the intermediate level It's gotta be cartridges. Talk to the couriers and the mechanics out there. They'll have seen them all multiple times and will know which hold up the best on average over the miles.

1. double/tripple butted spokes are the only way forward. Superior spring characteristics over strait guage spokes, which relieve strain from the elbow of the spoke and it's thread (apparently). Obviously less massive = -rolling mass = good thang. A butted spoke is also thinner so there is also an aerodynamic advantage. footnote... Aero spokes... I find them irritating.
   
   

3.1.Nipples: Brass Vs Alu.
Alu = light
Brass = softer metal, durable, nice to work with

1. In addition to the things the other guys have said (welded, milled etc.) there is also box section rims which are more rigid than standard rims. If you hacksaw through a box and a standard, the box/ 'deep v' will have a profile like a capital 'A' or 'D' the standard like the letter 'C'. so box is reinforced, tougher. Weight can be similar.
   
   

Spoke tension good for a wheels strength so eyeleted rims are better. Basically an eyeleted rim is one whose holes for the nipples have been reinforced. The higher the tension of the spokes the stronger the wheel. Contrary to popular belief, it's the spokes ability to deal with tensile load, rather than the 'toughness' of the rim that keeps a wheel round and true. Bear in mind a wheel is an elastic, dynamic structure rather than a solid, rigid object.
Load capacity= lacing pattern, no of spokes, consistancy and level of spoke tensions throughout wheel. By consistancy of tension I mean, are they all pulling their weight. If they are they will share additional loads more evenly.

note Open Pro is a truly lovely roadie rim. For track (rear) however Mavic recommends CXP 33 or 22. Can take higher spoke tens. so bit tougher. Better for the city streets, a little bit heavier I imagine but then it comes back down to service/ durability/performance specs.

5.labour
If you approach the project slow and methodical like, there is no reason your first DIY wheels wont turn out fine. There is a lot to take into consideration, but don't loose heart, It's easier than it sounds and so much more satisfying than you can imagine. Anyway if you do get into a pickle I charge between £8 and £16 to sort out your little tangle of spokes depending on the mess. It should be fine though, I've still got wheels number 2 and 3!

Regarding whole builds...

£48/£42 Double butted DT Swiss spokes (x64@£0.75each-black) (£0.65-silver)
£35 labour (if I'm calculating for and providing the parts) £50 otherwise for the pair
single gauge cost 50p a spoke
http://www.perlierides.com and
bikes@perlierides.com

Extra reading material:

The Art of wheel building. Gerd Schraner
Sheldon brown ??? possibly
Aylesbury training Group ????
Park tools ???

adzthename

Extra reading material:

The Art of wheel building. Gerd Schraner
Sheldon brown ??? possibly
Aylesbury training Group ????
Park tools ???

Man, what a post - serious kudos to you for that one. Reap the karma :-)

Ohh, and surely you have to mention Jobst Brandt - The Bicycle wheel?

thanks Ad,

brillo.

as you might be able to tell from the above posts me and mashton are thinking of building my wheels together so we both learn, but then with a healthy dose of help from kind forum members...

uber Ta for the above gems...

x

Plus, Welcome to the forum!

I have just stumbled across this thread. Expect a cease and desist order from my solicitor - next time it'll be the libel courts in fricken Denver or Bangalore of wherever the f- this forum is hosted.

A man's rim is his own business for chrissakes.

wikid b I'll try to put together a how to when i got a mo too.

Tip no 1: Always start everything at the valve hole

2 Every thing usually goes every other hole at the hub for every fourth hole at the rim

maybe rebuild one of your old wheels first. will give you a starter ??? Cheep cockup if it happens too :oP

tip 3 dont cross under the valve hole on 3x...

sheldons wheelbuilding page gives everything you need to know, follow it step by step.

even a monkey could do it.

the only hard bit is tension, without a gauge you need to know by either handling a well built wheel, getting a shop to check or buying your own tension gauge. there is also a method using pitch. (I've used a clip-on guitar tuner to very good effect in the past)

this page
also has some reasonable advice, particularly about the importance to tension evenly and not rush it!