Remember kids... always wear a helmet. (The almighty bikeradar helmet thread)

I am finding it really rather hard to respond without being deeply offensive directly at you.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

tl:dr

But oh no, there are half a dozen people on the net who know fucking everything about everything, especially risk compensation and the way I ride, and they're so fucking clever they get it right all the time.

Please do not assume that the fact that many people are fucking stupid and dreadful cyclists means that only you and MDCC can successfully risk compensate, therefore it would be better if we all cycled naked with no lights so that we don't take unnecessary risks.

As I said, very hard not to be very abusive with regards your arrogance.

Seriously, it would have been easy to get your point across without getting offensive. The fact that you have stated otherwise and then gone on to do it means that you either:

a. Are no-where near as intelligent as you think you are.
b. Have an anger management problem and should probably stick to public transport.
c. Are a deeply unpleasant human being.
d. A combination of of the above.

As I said, very hard not to be very abusive with regards your arrogance.

Arrogance, Hah.

Read what I fucking wrote.

apologise, little hard to read with the mixture of cap lock.

Also, no lights, then walk home.

^^this, or plan ahead. Personally if I am taking my bike I never leave the house without lights.

Also I would rather see folk with anger management issues on public transport than in control of any vehicle on the road that could be used as a weapon when they see red (I include bikes in this).

Utter shit. If I was to drive down the road with no lights on you'd be up in arms.

Pretty sure I would see the street lights. or even the moon, glinting off your big bald head Andy and compensate my risk accordingly.

If you weren't distracted by the moon reflecting off my big bald head of course.

In the end it's only the lawyers who would be the winners.

Haven't you seen the Times campaign? Cycling is very dangerous. You have more chance of being killed as a cyclists than a soldier in Afghanistan has of being killed by an Addison Lee minivan. FACT!

I think this is utter bullshit.

Yes but do you have any actual dead-crab evidence, or is that a scientific fact?

only you and MDCC can successfully risk compensate

Just him then, because I know both my instinctive and well thought through risk compensations will both be wrong; I just don't know in which direction.

MDCC (especially) seems to think helmets are bad because risk compensation is bad

I don't think helmets are bad, I think compulsion is bad. I don't think risk compensation is bad any more than I think surprise or delight are bad; they are just things which fall out of natural psychology, so they are morally neutral. I do know that risk compensation is nearly always done wrong, but in both directions, so the jury is out on whether the effect of risk compensation is worse than the effect would be if it were eliminated from human psychology.

Must do work... but in the meantime I'd love people to address the point that I was trying to make.

(1) When risk compensation = 'I have a helmet therefore I can cut down the inside of lorries at junctions" it is a very bad thing.

(2) When risk compensation = 'I do not have a helmet with me today therefore I will cycle a little more carefully than I do normally" it is not a bad thing at all.

MDCC (especially) seems to think helmets are bad because risk compensation is bad because people who wear helmets think like (1). I think this is utter bullshit.

Wether you do or don't wear a helmet is immaterial, bad decisions are still bad decisions. If you go down the inside of a bus/lorry at a junction, that's clearly a bad decision.
Wether you do or don't have a helmet is immaterial again, as you ride as carefully as you can day to day, some days will be better than others as we're only human. But you ride carefully nonetheless.

It's the seemingly bad decisions some people make that make things bad.

I don't think helmets are bad, I think compulsion is bad.

I agree with this.
I also don't belive there is an issues with risk compensation where a cyclist may or may not cycle more recklessly, this is marginal in terms of road danger.
The element of risk compensation that does bother me and I believe affects us massively is that of protecting drivers through car safety technology like seatbelts, bags and bars. A driver who feels very protected may take more risks with others so while stats show an overall drop in road deaths the number of children and older people killed (out of cars) has risen dispropotionatley and in uk is one of the highest in europe.

(Jeez I hope you feel better now that you have been DEEPLY OFFENSIVE)

Just wanna say after cycling in London for 14 years, I decided to begin wearing a helmet last August.
Today I took a full head face plant to the floor after slipping on black ice (couldn't see it). Fucked my eye socket and temple somewhat but the helmet took the full brunt and is now split into 3 pieces. I've never waded into any helmet discussion and have never been someone to tell others to wear a helmet.
But today, I'm really chuffed, despite the pain, that I didn't find out how much worse it could've been had I not had one on.

Just wanna say after cycling in London for 14 years, I decided to begin wearing a helmet last August.
Today I took a full head face plant to the floor after slipping on black ice (couldn't see it). Fucked my eye socket and temple somewhat but the helmet took the full brunt and is now split into 3 pieces.

Have you got checked out at hospital, just in case?

^This

Been checked out which was good. I'm ok and have to just go easy today and watch out for signs of serious head injury. Other than that a lot of bruising and lumps.

Cool, take it easy out there, and death (or a quick thaw) to all black ice out there....

shit, beard OK?

Glad you are ok Todd. Maybe you had on the wrong helmet?

Has this been.... No, stupid question

Definitely had wrong helmet on. Ha! Thanks Will!

I suspect that most people could come up with a fairly accurate estimate to get them fairly close to a sensible adjustment in behaviour

You suspect that, but it turns out that your suspicions are wrong; people make wildly inaccurate guesses, both about what their absolute risk is and about the effectiveness of any mitigation they employ. Staying on topic, the benefits of helmet use in everyday road cycling are so marginal that any change in behaviour between using and not using one is a massive over-reaction.

You suspect that, but it turns out that your suspicions are wrong; people make wildly inaccurate guesses, both about what their absolute risk is and about the effectiveness of any mitigation they employ.

How do you know this?