Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

If your at 2K why stop there in for a penny in for a pound that is how all my builds get out of control.

Anyone built up some h plus son archetype rims onto hope mono rs hubs? I'm doing 24/24 radial front 2x rear - I've used several spoke length calculators, and they all produce different results haha. Anyone built these and know what length I'd need? Many thanks in advance!

Do you have them? If so measure them and figure it out yourself.

I have, but like I said different sites have yielded different spoke lengths.

Are you using cubits?

Are you using cubits?

Seems unlikely, cubits are only used in bicycle measurement to ensure that handlebars are correctly positioned.

well if the measurements are far out...

Even if the measurements were far out, that wouldn't explain why different websites when inputting the same data would yield different spoke lengths. I also don't have access to an old school chart in my current workshop, which is what I used in my previous one. So I'm having to rely on inputting data into (what appear to be) Unreliable websites.

I've decided to trust the dt Swiss calculator - I've laced the front wheel seems fine so far

I used Edd for Archetypes on Novatec and it was spot-on. But I did notice you easily get half a mm difference between sites...

I've spotted differences in the ways sites handle ERD. Some sites treat you like a clever person that has managed to measure from rim-bed to rim-bed (i.e. nipple surface), whilst other sites assume that you've only measured the inside diameter of your rim so they helpfully add 2, 3 or 4mm to your ERD measurement and then spit out spoke lengths 1-2mm too long.

There may also be some other tom-foolery happening beside this particular tom-foolery.

I've spotted differences in the ways sites handle ERD

There are also differences in how rim manufacturers handle ERD. Some measure to the face of the spoke bed, some give the dimension to where the spoke should end if you use the right nipples (true ERD). Obviously calculators will give different results depending on which assumption they make. A rim with a spoke bed of 600mm (which may well be what the manufacturer lists as "ERD") will have a true ERD of about 604mm.

This is why measure your self properly and use Spoke calc spreadsheet by Daimon Rinhard. It works perfectly.

I want to rebuild my Powertap Pro+ hub with a DT Swiss R460. The wheel will be 32H 3-cross - what spokes should I use?

I'd prefer black spokes for cosmetic reasons but not sure the premium is worth it. Basically trying to decide between Sapim Laser/Race, DT Swiss Champion/Competition/Revolution - any others worth considering? Is there a big difference between any of them (weight difference looks to be ~50g for 2x the price)?

when in doubt use DT Swiss Competition...
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/dt-swiss-competition-spoke/aid:807361

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/dt-swiss-competition---the-classical-spoke/aid:48044

Probably a question for @mdcc_tester :)

If I (for reasons...) wanted to drill new spoke holes in a aluminium rim, what would have the strongest connection: holes for internal nipples ~2.5mm or normal holes 4.5 mm.

i guess the smaller hole would be stronger but wouldn't a normal hole + nipple spread out the pressure from the spoke over a larger area?

I'd prefer black spokes for cosmetic reasons but not sure the premium is worth it

It isn't :-)

Basically trying to decide between Sapim Laser/Race, DT Swiss Champion/Competition/Revolution -

DT Comp/Sapim Race are about the same. Champion are plain gauge and best avoided unless you have some really weird build in mind where you are absolutely sure that they are the best choice. Laser/Revolution are pretty pointless, if you're that much of a weight weenie then you'd start again and design better wheels around a smaller number of thicker spokes.

any others worth considering?

I like DT alpine III for general purpose wheelbuilding, but they are probably overkill if you're under 100kg. ACI, Pillar and CN all make decent spokes too. If you're really attached to black and want to save a few pence compared with DT or Sapim, Cyclebasket have black ACI for 40p each

Is there a big difference between any of them?

Not between the main reputable manufacturers.

Thanks for the input, think I'll probably have to cough up the extra for black spokes to match my front wheel. One more question, can the decals on the R460 rims be easily removed?

^ easily

I've written a very simple spoke length calculator that is on my wheel site and use it for all my builds. I've taken the formulas from the Damon Rinard spreadsheet. I measure the ERD from end of the nipple to the opposite end of the nipple and add 24mm. You can find it here:

http://yogarup.com/wheels/hubs

Lasers are useful on front wheels. They are fine on rear wheels with stiff rims. 24 sapim race 290mm length spokes weigh in at 150g where as 28 lasers weight 133g. Not a massive saving but a 24 spoke wheel with race spokes is not really more reliable than a 28 spoke wheel with lasers.

Alpine 3 and sapim force spokes rock. Not much heavier than the comps or race but more fatigue resistant. I really like them.

Black spokes may not be worth the premium but onmy one in 10 people roughly ask for solver spokes it may be 1 n 15.

I've got a customer wanting to use a 142 x 12mm rear thru axle hub with a Campag freehub, but for the life of me I can't find a brand that does this or offers conversion kits - any ideas? I though DT or Chris King would do them, but apparently not for Campag...

If they want 11 speed, a sram or shimano cassette will apparently give the same spacing.

Yeah, I have discussed this option with them, but they're unwilling to mix groupsets and want to keep it Campag only. Obviously if there really are no options available, this may be a last resort.