Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

thanks all. after a few hours surfing the net settled on the archetypes, £100 from wiggle
let the spoke calculation begin

Happy enough with Archetype & ACI aero spokes on Novatec copies. Stiff and roll well. No spoke pinging (yet?) will check them again for trueness in a month or so.

Alas I can't use the wideness too much as 25 is the most the track frame can take... The 25s sit very well though! Like balloons no squishing :)

(Which means they're not any comfier with Lithion 2s at the recommended 110 PSI on then than the old Ambrosio Balance on 23C Panaracer Pasela at 110 PSI. PP flex a bit with the soft sidewall = good for commuting as it ads comfort. Bad for fullout effort I suppose...)

110 PSI

Paging Scoble!

It says so on the little paper manual that came with them...

...does Scoble not RTFM... :'(

Joking aside Panaracers really are comfier I've had them on several bikes. But I thought I try something new (and lighter) :)

If I had written 110 bar, you'd need to summon Tester too... :P

H+Son Toedstrieb rims

Anyone built these? They look lush.

TodesRieb =~ DeathRub. What is this H+Son... a Lightweight rim name? ;)

I supposed the Q is, what's it for? For me the extra 130 grams + kerb jumping capabilities aren't needed.

I supposed the Q is, what's it for? For me the extra 130 grams + kerb jumping capabilities aren't needed.

With a 32mm rim width, I'd say it's for maaaaaantin bikes and people wanting to run large tyres on gravellygrindingbikes.

TodesRieb =~ DeathRub.
TodesTrieb = DeathWish

That´s why Suicycle sell them, obvsly

Per t'internet also stunty bikes, perhaps that's where the deathwish comes from.
"Dentistwish" doesn't have the same ring to it... :P

Funny angles on the spoke holes is interesting.

I haz them in 26" on the work cargo bike. They are beefy, I like them.

Would a lower spoke count or deeper rim have the more significant effect for trying to go fast on the flat?

Would a lower spoke count or deeper rim have the more significant effect for trying to go fast on the flat?

Lower drag is what you want. There's no way to guess whether a deeper rim will reduce drag without looking at the shape, some ~50mm wheels are faster than some other ~80mm wheels.

Reducing the spoke count does reduce drag, all other things being equal, although some tests suggest rapidly diminishing returns once you get below 20 spokes. Aero spokes probably make more difference than spoke count, since a circular cylinder with its axis perpendicular to the flow is a truly horrible shape.

The magnitude of the gains available isn't as large as wheel manufacturers would like you to think, the very best front wheel is only about 15W better than an Open Pro with 32 round spokes at 50km.h^-1, which is well worth having on a race bike but are you actually going to ride at 50km.h^-1? At a more realistic tooling-around pace of 30km.h^-1, the gain becomes more like 3W

So how much W do you save per aero spoke over a normal spoke at 30km/h? :)

The upper bound would seem to be about 50mW

Tx ^=^

So at 56 aero spokes (F+R) the upper bound gain is 2.8W over round. Oh, not bad.

The lower bound is me slowing down at every junction cos stupid drivers which means I barely get to the upper bound :):)

Are there theoretical models or are such things pure measurement? Exp curve, scary Taylor series, how do they do it?

Are there theoretical models or are such things pure measurement?

Measurement is best, modelling air flow over wire spoked wheels is not easy. Imagine modelling a helicopter rotor, then turn it on its side right next to the ground and add a rim which messes with the air flow before it gets to the 'blades'. That makes the helicopter simple in comparison with just one side of a wheel, yet AFAIK western helicopter engineers modelled helicopter rotors and decided that an 8-blade single rotor could not work effectively. It took a Ukrainian to prove them wrong :-)

:)

Oh man, a lot of his work is well before powerful computers before modelling too :)

Thanks. 3 Watts for hundreds of pounds starting to seem expensive.

How much are you looking to spend?

It doesn't have to be £100s perse :)

No specific budget. Thinking I'll stick with the wheels I have though now.
Had you some deep 20/24 hole rims you were going to suggest?

I can only comment on Archetypes, which are nice to build with, stiff and are a bit wider so the tyre keeps a nice round shape, which does make a difference :)

But there are also Kinlins/DT swiss R460/superstar ones that don't break the bank. R460 you can get from bike24 I believe.

Superstar has silly deals on wheels atm...hard to build for that money.

Re: Superstar
Assembling is part of the fun. Why buy a cheaper well-made wheel when I can bodge one that's a bit wobbly and uneven myself??

R460 is much better price than the Belgiums.

Indeed you can't beat homemade wheels for that bit of satisfaction...and "hm did I do this right?" excitement :)

24/20 is quite low for a first build perhaps?