Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

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  • How does it compare to Jobsts?

    Dunno, I got "The Bicycle Wheel" in about 1984 and have never felt the need to seek out anything else.

    For the casual home builder, a book isn't really needed at all. There's more than enough free information on the internet to take you from starter to advanced wheel builder, even if you disregard the fact that "The Bicycle Wheel" should be free de jure because authors' rights for dead people are ridiculous, and is free de facto because a pdf comes up as about the third google search result :-)

  • Musson's book is excellent & comprehensive but still references - and quotes from - Brandt's book as the benchmark in wheel building knowledge.

  • Brandt is excellent for theory and if you're planning on wheel building to be something you want to master I'd certainly recommend it. For me though, if you just want to build a wheel or two, Zinn's step-by-step instructions in his books are so well written you can't lose.

  • @t_w @mdcc_tester - Cool. Thanks for the info :)

  • Yes I am malcolm. the A23 rim is a fine rim but has lots of drilling swarf in it so before I build I have to shake it out or pick it out. I don't like doing that so I don't use the rim. I still have a pair left in the shop that how much I dislike the swarf.

    The H plus son archetype was the rim I used the most for a while but Kinlin have the XR22t and the XR31t. Both of which shine. They are in my opinion the best rims in production today as they are cheap, wide, don't crack, tubeless compatible, not heavy and come in offset drilling. The last bit I like alot as tubeless tyres compress rims alot. I have measured a 300N tension drop on the DS rear. thats ~150N of the NDS. A offset rim helps mitigate that problem nicely.

    The Mavic open Pro is narrow and shallow. Now aside from the width not being optimal the rim is not stiff. This means when building with one I have to add half hour to time it takes to build one wheel as stress relieving simply takes longer as every time I stress the spoke the wheel goes out of true. Eventually I get bored and my hand start to hurt to much and have to give up and leave it be. I hate that as if I can put it out by stressing with my hands then the rider can too. A good wheel you can lay on its side on a wooden block and load up the rim with your hands and push and it will still be straight. Do that with a 32H or 36H open pro rear wheel and the NDS spokes loose tension the wheel flops and it all over the place when it goes back in the jig. The rim is not bent just spoke tension has changed. Hence I don't build with it any more unless someone really wants one and then I sigh inside as I know what I am in for.

    In contrast this afternoon building with a Pacenti SL23 and 1.45hrs later both wheels done and after side loading a few time they were both as straight as they where before. That is the difference a stiff rim makes.

    The Mavic CXP33 is narrow but stiff. That is at least half way there. Mavic's tubular rims of day's gone by where the best thing they have ever made. Ambrosio now are the only company still making something similar but they don't have a GP4 which is bloody perfect. There was also the CX12 tub 30mm deep if I remember right. There are a pair on ebay but £150 is a bit rich. Still Mavic have made some very good rims shame they have given up on that now.

  • Enjoyed reading that one

  • Heh I've a pair of gp4 wheels :)

    I like them, just Belfast streets and tubs don't mix. So much glass :(

  • A23 are the shittest flexiest rims out there; even Powertap realised the error of their ways and stopped using them after a couple of months for their pre-builts

  • Hey, thanks for that, may well give the H plus son arch a try, I won't know any different for a first attempt and I appreciate the advice that it sounds straight forward for a first build.
    Going to get on the case this week and get a book first. I have hubs now - DA 7400 which is in keeping with other parts on the bike, although the rear hub a friend is giving me and won't have till the end of the month, will start on the front, or might still use some white ind hubs from an old wheel set here. Gave up on the 7700 hubs as it felt like a shame to remove them from their GP4 rims, I've sold them as a complete wheelset to help finance this current project.
    Will likely buy rims from you Malcolm as I've a few bits from you in the past and always been happy with service. Need to figure out spokes, will probably go with lazer or race which I have on all other wheels. Think I'd better start with a book though first before anything.
    Just had a look on your site, the Pancenti rims cost a bit but look nice.

  • Look up the Wheel Fanatyk 'Nipple shuffler' went my Christmas list but santa didn't listen...

  • I'm a amateur wheelbuilder in West Norwood, sure would be interested in meeting other builders, geeking out and having a drink.

  • Looking on Edd spoke calculator it shows an erd of either 595 or 591 for archetypes, depending whether it is an older or newer rim, does any one know when this change took place?
    Thanks

  • it's 593 actually.

    592mm for v1 one rims a published 595mm for the v2 rims which measure 593mm so the erd has not changed for spoke length calculation purposes.

  • Mine had 2012 on a label in the rim and were old spoke length.

  • Thanks, although I've just measured at 595 so I'm reckoning I need 288s to my hope hub.

  • Cool. I am thinking about posting an event soon, just have to think about when to do this. I'm thinking perhaps February or March. I'll post a link here when I get something going.

  • @danwentskiing I think these have a cromo freehub and you can stick a nutted axle on there. you might get one cheaper in the January sales as well.

    http://www.halorims.com/products/part/HUHASDR8

  • It is 592mm for the archetype if your measuring spoke head is flush or just below the nipple driver flat of the nipple you have loctited in place. It is 595mm if the spoke head is flush with the top of the nipples.

    If you use 595mm you must round down by at least 1mm or you will run out of threads. I use 593mm and never run out of threads or have thread exposed i.e the right spoke length.

    If you are doing 32H 3x rear with hubs with 44-46mm PCD then spoke length is 288mm/290mm.

  • afternoon all
    I'm looking to upgrade my ultegra 6800 wheels as I find tyre fitting in the garage difficult and on the road almost impossible (tried different tyres).
    I'm 90kg rider and the wheelset will be used for fast club runs. ive got some dura ace 9000 24f 28r hubs in my evans basket (with a nice discount code) so I'm looking for advice on rims. reading this thread Archetypes are the popular choice but are they my best option?
    thanks inadvance
    dennis

    edit on spokes
    planning to use sapim laser front and NDS rear and sapim race DS rear as advised by thecycleclinic

  • I found fitting michelin lithion 2 tyres to the Archetype very easy.

    So OK for that & easy to build but I can't tell more :)

    Note the dtswiss r460 and kinlins may also suit you but sometimes it's a pest to get the right drillings. So if weight / budget are OK for Archetype it saves time hunting.

  • Archetypes are the popular choice but are they my best option?

    They're starting to look a bit pricey now that there are plenty of other 23mm options, e.g. DT R460 is only just over half the price. 24/28 are in stock at Bike24

  • But do they have the "bling" factor? :p

  • the archetype is good and so is the R460. The Archetype is a stiffer rim with a thicker spoke nipple bed. Kinlin Xr22t I think is the best as it comes in offset drilling and consistantly round to a higher standard than the archetype or R460 which can show some radial wobble (o.5mm or 0.6mm). you'd be surprised how many calls I get saying my wheel has vertical movement of about 0.5mm.
    At least they are looking I suppose.

  • Oh I forgot the Kinlin XR31t is another good option. Ambrosio are doing a wide rim now called the new evolution.

  • do they have the "bling" factor?

    If you want bling, throw £200+ at a pair of Hed rims

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Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

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