Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

^^^ flo say most aero is 23c

And FLO found the GP4000s to work best with their rims.

Just ordered one after seeing yours here, looks great can't wait for mine to arrive!

Actually made by a guy called Filip I found on another forum when looking for a decent tensiometer at a good price.

For the money there really isn't anything even approaching the quality, precision, reliability that I've managed to find (and I looked realllly hard too!), plus it's based on the design which Jobst Brandt shared in his wheel building book, so it's proven design and maths backed up with Filips engineering.

It's easy to use and comes with different dial rings for different spokes, which he calibrates for every spoke size individually for every tensiometer he makes, but if you'd prefer it, he will do you a tension chart instead.

He also has a choice of bearing types for the sliding piece, regular cartridge bearings or THK sliding bearings (high end ultra slick precision), and a choice of dials from relatively cheap (still good german shock proof models though), to very high end TESA Digito (sooo good digital) dials, which would be perfect for frequent and pro wheel builders (I want one bad).

Couldn't recommend him enough really, very good communication, detailed descriptions and pics to show you how it's going, and he gives you plenty of options, and his prices are very good, give him email at - kralyevski@gmail.com

If you do, let him know I pointed you in the right direction. ;P

I have always used the same spoke lengths for the Ambrosio series (Excellence, Evolution, Excursion) and Open PRO. Typically for a 32 3 cross with a standard hub (like your 105) you are looking at 295 front; 292/294 rear. If your OP was built with the correct lengths, it should be straightforward.

ta

2mm is at the limit of what you can get away with, but I would never trust published ERD numbers, always measure for yourself.

ta also

Harry Rowland interview

http://andywaterman.info/harry-rowland-cyclist-magazine-wheels/

So I just built up my Taiwanese hub to the RS80 rim, brass-nips and j-bend spokes felt like a dream compared to the alu and straight pulls that were there before.

:D

Anyone know where to get the Kinlin 23mm wide rims (XC 279) in the UK?

Anyone know where to get the Kinlin 23mm wide rims (XC 279) in the UK?

Try to contact "the cycle clinic" in Suffolk, I know he builds them, not sure he sells them too

Harry Rowland interview

http://andywaterman.info/harry-rowland-cyclist-magazine-wheels/

I'd never heard of anyone snapping a (spoke during a wheelbuild) until I read that.

This evening I snapped a spoke on a rebuild.

:-(

I am building a set for a friend with NJS Hoshi bladed spokes and Araya Gold rims
pattern x4 crossed with Suzue Pro Max high flange hubs.
Its the first time I am building with bladed spokes and I am a bit at a loss for the correct tension to apply
first issue is that the spokes are only mentionned as 15x305 on the packaging but when I take the measures, I find 1.75mm at the rounded section near the head and 2.25 for the blade in its width and 1.25 in its thickness ! so I wonder where the 15 comes from !
furthermore , on the parktool chart , these 1.25x2.25 are not mentionned
Presently I am at about 15 on the parktool tensiometer
the closest I can see in the parktool chart steel blade are 1.2x2.6mm and 1.2 and 1.9mm
15 at 1.2x2.6 gives a 99 Kilogram Force tension
15 at 1.2x1.9 gives a 86 Kgf tension
I would assume my tension is between the 2 so around 92/93

does it sound right to you specialists of the bladed spoke ? ;-)
would you apply a slightly higher tension or not ? to arrive at a 100 Kgf ?

thanks for the tips

the spokes are only mentionned as 15x305 on the packaging but when I take the measures, I find 1.75mm at the rounded section near the head and 2.25 for the blade in its width and 1.25 in its thickness ! so I wonder where the 15 comes from !

1.75mm = 15g, give or take a bit of tolerance/measurement error.

Your spoke dimensions are almost identical to DT Aerospeed (1.8-1.2×2.3-1.8), so if you can find a setting on your Park Tool for those, you'll be in the right area.

I got this hub a while ago which led to a lot of over thinking! So i got some questions....

1.It's obviously made for bladed spokes, which i didn't realize and don't want, is there any reason normal spokes wont work or be an issue?

1. Will it be strong enough? i'm quite worried the hub will brake on me, using often on rough roads.

2. I'm thinking 2 cross is the best for a low flange hub? also will that be stiff enough sideways for a close clearance fork (my Vivalo.) as its 28h, very low flange on a low profile rim

I have got a rear Gran Compe hub and want to lace them up to some grey Open Pro's.

I got this hub a while ago which led to a lot of over thinking! So i got some questions....

1.It's obviously made for bladed spokes, which i didn't realize and don't want, is there any reason normal spokes wont work or be an issue?

1. Will it be strong enough? i'm quite worried the hub will brake on me, using often on rough roads.

2. I'm thinking 2 cross is the best for a low flange hub? also will that be stiff enough sideways for a close clearance fork (my Vivalo.) as its 28h, very low flange on a low profile rim

I have got a rear Gran Compe hub and want to lace them up to some grey Open Pro's.

I think you are over-worrying... yes, you can use round spokes and a 2 cross pattern It will be plenty stiff and the fork is never a problem. Low/high flange doesn't make much of a difference, wide/narrow flange spacing hub does, but yours is probably 68-70 mm hence perfectly fine

I am building a set for a friend with NJS Hoshi bladed spokes and Araya Gold rims
pattern x4 crossed with Suzue Pro Max high flange hubs.
Its the first time I am building with bladed spokes and I am a bit at a loss for the correct tension to apply
first issue is that the spokes are only mentionned as 15x305 on the packaging but when I take the measures, I find 1.75mm at the rounded section near the head and 2.25 for the blade in its width and 1.25 in its thickness ! so I wonder where the 15 comes from !
furthermore , on the parktool chart , these 1.25x2.25 are not mentionned
Presently I am at about 15 on the parktool tensiometer
the closest I can see in the parktool chart steel blade are 1.2x2.6mm and 1.2 and 1.9mm
15 at 1.2x2.6 gives a 99 Kilogram Force tension
15 at 1.2x1.9 gives a 86 Kgf tension
I would assume my tension is between the 2 so around 92/93

does it sound right to you specialists of the bladed spoke ? ;-)
would you apply a slightly higher tension or not ? to arrive at a 100 Kgf ?

thanks for the tips

15 for the front wheel should be fine... rear drive side maybe 17-18... that's what I use for the ACI bladed, which are 2.1 x 1.3, so very close to yours

I think you are over-worrying... yes, you can use round spokes and a 2 cross pattern It will be plenty stiff and the fork is never a problem. Low/high flange doesn't make much of a difference, wide/narrow flange spacing hub does, but yours is probably 68-70 mm hence perfectly fine

Bad habits, just want to trust my bike though

I ordered these two 36/36 (they're not here yet):

http://hplusson.com/products/archetype
http://www.profileracing.com/estore/product.php?productId=302

Other than that, I only know I want DT Swiss spokes. Is there any way to find out what spoke length would fit, just with the info on the sites? Anyone maybe did the same combination?

I got this hub a while ago which led to a lot of over thinking! So i got some questions....

1.It's obviously made for bladed spokes, which i didn't realize and don't want, is there any reason normal spokes wont work or be an issue?

1. Will it be strong enough? i'm quite worried the hub will brake on me, using often on rough roads.

2. I'm thinking 2 cross is the best for a low flange hub? also will that be stiff enough sideways for a close clearance fork (my Vivalo.) as its 28h, very low flange on a low profile rim

I have got a rear Gran Compe hub and want to lace them up to some grey Open Pro's.

I've just built up a 16h version of this hub, with a C24 rim (i.e. low profile) and it is perfectly true/strong (well right now at least). Definitely over worrying!

I ordered these two 36/36 (they're not here yet):

http://hplusson.com/products/archetype
http://www.profileracing.com/estore/product.php?productId=302

Other than that, I only know I want DT Swiss spokes. Is there any way to find out what spoke length would fit, just with the info on the sites? Anyone maybe did the same combination?

Hub measurements are at http://www.profileracing.com/tech/hub-measurements/
Rim ERD is 595mm according to H+Son
Plug those numbers into the DT spoke calculator with your preferred crossing pattern and spoke type and it will spit out spoke lengths.

For Archetype I use ERD 592-593... last year they did quote 592, then it became 595 for some reason, but the rim has not changed, not that I have noticed at least.

Maybe they just changed to a different definition of ERD, there are three conflicting views on where you're supposed to measure :-)

3 Attachments

That's entirely possible, I use the one at the top (the most widely accepted), hence adding 10 mm for each 12 mm nipple. Then I typically round up the spokes... others prefer to add all the 12 mm of the nipple and always round down

I use the one at the top (the most widely accepted)

I'm not sure that it is the most widely accepted, judging by the amount of moaning you hear about Mavic publishing 'nipple seat diameter' (the top one) rather than what is described as the 'commonly accepted definition' of ERD.

It doesn't actually matter which definition you use, as long as you know which definition you're using :-)

I planned to order everything and let a local builder here build the wheels, but I will now rather order and send the hubs directly to kinoko or somewhere and let them handle it all then send me the finished wheels, much safer. Too much room for errors. Thanks for the help, but I don't feel like risking it... The only thing that is bugging me is the possibility of the finished wheels to get damaged in transport, hope they won't.

I've just built up a 16h version of this hub, with a C24 rim (i.e. low profile) and it is perfectly true/strong (well right now at least). Definitely over worrying!

Mostly worried about the tiny lightweight hub not spoke count, never used anything like it.

well i ordered some velocity A23's, instead of open pro's...

Mostly worried about the tiny lightweight hub not spoke count, never used anything like it.

The bearings wear faster than bigger bearings, otherwise it's the same as a big hub... I have seen large hubs cracking and tiny hubs lasting for years and viceversa. If you build it at 2 cross you have nothing to worry about. Typically replacing bearings in tiny hubs is a sub-minute operation and bearings (6 x 9 x 20) are cheap, even SKF or INA quality, so it's all good

Anyone know if the advertised erds for TB14s is similarly vague/changed? I just bought a pair, already bought spokes. Hopefully my round-downs for lengths won't have been significant enough to cause me a problem if the erd's grown.