Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

I’ve never experienced this but of the few sets built (couple dozen?), I always have been aggressive with prestressing the spokes.

Prestress things properly and your wheel should be alright without needing tweaking.

Cheers, I'm mildly concerned that I've slightly over-tensioned the spokes on a back wheel I've just built. I'm reluctant to back everything off by half a turn, as I'm aware that I probably tend to build wheels too loose rather than too tight. I'm wondering whether a certain amount of settling in will ease the tension slightly and then I can just true things up.

over-tensioned...settling in...I can just true things up.

A wheel which is so over-tensioned that it starts moving when you ride it will probably never recover. The materials under consideration tend not to creep, they yield and mostly get geometrically weaker in doing so. This is typically revealed in cracks around the spoke holes in either the rim or the hub flange.

A wheel which is so over-tensioned that it starts moving when you ride it

I'm not sure what you mean by that, why would over-tension in itself cause the wheel to move (assuming that it's not so catastrophically tight that it spontaneously pringles)? My intuition is that the repeated stresses from actually riding the bike might act to settle the spokes in ways that the building process wouldn't e.g., finding their optimum path round the flange and each other as they repeatedly stretch and recover. I could be completely wrong.

why would over-tension in itself cause the wheel to move

Because static tension plus dynamic tension leads to some component being stressed past its yield point. Of course, this is also a description of stress relieving, the difference is that we're applying a carefully controlled over-stress to an assembly where we know which point will yield, at a total load which we know won't break anything else.

As snotter says, a properly built wheel will stay straight for a long time under ordinary service loads. The corollary is that a wheel which needs truing after only a short amount of riding wasn't built properly to start with, and may have been terminally damaged by the material stretching which caused the overall geometry to change.

Interesting, I normally do a thorough job of the stress relieve/pre stress/whatever you want to call it when I’m building for other people but i can be bit lazy with it when I’m building for myself as I figure I can just ride the wheel a bit then true it in a wee while.
Sounds like it’s not as simple as I’d thought though so I’ll start talking more care with my own wheels.

@wenzovic cheers. Think it was the lack of mention of ‘phr’ on the DT Swiss site that I’d seen. Glad you agree with my interpretation.

Back to those DT Swiss R 460 rims, I measure them as 592mm but DT Swiss says 596mm on the site and the spoke calc, rims even have it etched on them.

I remember my mate built a set of Phils onto some of the nicer DT Swiss rims last year without the washers and used the supplied measurements and found the spokes too long, he rebuilt them with the washers and thought the spoke length was better.

I don't think the washers would account for 2mm though...

I think DT measure things slightly differently and it's always 2mm out, just go with what you've measured. Those cheaper rims aren't designed with the PHR washers in mind and don't ship with them and sqorx nipples.

Yeah, I've ordered spokes according to my measurements.

You'd think they could get it right if they're putting it on the side of the flipping rim!

hey wheelbuilders! I've been so lucky to pick up some Araya Gold 16B tubular rims on the forum and am really keen to build them up as a track set. I'm a complete novice when it comes to wheelbuilding, and to avoid the inevitable ordering of a ton of wrong size/shape/compatibility, I was hoping to pick some tubular shaped brains. My first question was around spokes, given that these are tubular, not clincher rims, do I need spokes that specifically cater to tubs? Has anyone got any good recommendations? My second question is around tools, what are the essentials, nice to haves, make your life slightly more painfree? Hubs, I was leaning toward buying campag - are there any compatibility issues I should be aware of? Equally, if someone has good hub reccos, I'm very happy to listen. Reading through this thread I'm sensing a lot of very expert and experienced builders, so do excuse if my questions are novice.

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My first question was around spokes, given that these are tubular, not clincher rims, do I need spokes that specifically cater to tubs?

No

Has anyone got any good recommendations?

ACI Alpinas in silver.

My second question is around tools, what are the essentials, nice to haves, make your life slightly more painfree?

Essential - spoke key. Nice to have - truing stand. Life more painfree - tensiometer.

Hubs, I was leaning toward buying campag - are there any compatibility issues I should be aware of?

No. Hubs is hubs. Provided the spoke count is right and the hubs will fit your frame of choice, there's no compatibility issues.

@Brommers this is perfect. Thanks so much

was leaning toward buying campag - are there any compatibility issues I should be aware of

Annoying Italian lock ring and axle threads. Unless you have some weird fetishistic attachment to Campag, get the better and cheaper Shimano 7710 hubs, you'll be much better placed if you drop a lock ring or track nut and need to scrounge a spare.

Hi, I want to build a budget wheelset for my beater bike. I have am looking at these ryde zac 2000 rims are these alright for my purpose?
I weight 196lbs 88kg, is it fine to go 32 front and rear or should I go for 36 spokes?

32H Zac2000 is plenty for a 200lb rider

Picked up a set of lightly used RS4's on Open Pros recently, hand built by someone else.
After truing up the rear I went to stress it by placing on the floor and applying pressure. At the first attempt I felt it either bend or flex, at which point it became completely out of true.

I've trued it up again no problem, but the feeling of it bend in my hands under not very much pressure has me a bit scared.
There is no obvious bend at the rim join, but it does feel a little bit indented, under the sticker Not sure if this was there before, or is normal.

Can anyone advise to whether I may have bent or damaged the rim/spokes, and whether it is safe to use?

It's got:
28h
3 cross
Straight gauge spokes

Old open pros?

New. Under 250 miles previous owner

One of these:
https://www.muziker.co.uk/mavic-open-pro-c-28h

I went to stress it by placing on the floor and applying pressure. At the first attempt I felt it either bend or flex, at which point it became completely out of true.

That's not how you stress relieve
A wheel which has already been built properly once doesn't need stress relief after truing, except for any new spokes
If you tacoed it with light pressure, it was probably too tight

They're not the stiffest of rims either, if it's true and the tensions sound even then you're probably fine but might be worth checking the actual tension with a tension meter if you can and not side loading it afterwards, an 11 speed hub and narrow, symmetric rim will be easy to do what you did to it.

Thanks. Yes it was already quite tight, and it did taco but I've brought it back to true, so I couldn't tell if it was the rim or spokes which gave way.

Do you think it's safe to continue using?

Do you think it's safe to continue using?

Check the tension. If it's uniform and correct within normal tolerances it should be fine.

couldn't tell if it was the rim or spokes which gave way.

In theory, nothing broke, you just pushed it over the threshold which divides the two stable states, plane and taco

I've checked the tension with a Park Tool tensiometer. Seems uniform, if a bit high; 15-17avg on the nds, and 24-25avg on the drive side.