Tubs

Mastik-One has a longer working window than Conti Carbon cement, and is therefore easier to use.

Tape is much less intimidating, however

One should not be so easily intimidated. Glueing tyres is neither rocket science nor the ancient art of fashioning the Kiku-ichimonji.

Mastik-One has a longer working window than Conti Carbon cement, and is therefore easier to use.

Don't bother with Conti Carbon cement. The standard Conti glue works well and if one wants to get a better hold on carbon rims one can use a bit of Patex (contact cement)--- this is what a number of pro-riders do.

Heard too many horror stories about normal cement, carbon rims and heat.

Not that my commuter will ever get used in the Alps, but the road bike is being used in the mountains next month, and I'd rather I didn't roll a tyre there.

They only have Conti

Must have ordered mine from CRC then.

Heard too many horror stories about normal cement, carbon rims and heat.

Told by people that have experienced problems?

Frankly carbon is not the world's greatest material for rims. Alu alloy replaced wood on the road for good reason. Carbon is even in some ways inferior to wood. Both are insulators. Alu has proven itself to work well since its not only strong and light but also has very good thermal conductivity. The entire rim acts like a big heat sink. This improves braking but also allows for the rim bed to heat and melt glue. With carbon since its not well conducted the rim does not dissapate heat and the walls can get quite hot. The walls of carbon rims can sometimes deform. This is why folding HP clincher tyres are not a good match. Even with really good "carbon pads" braking on carbon is not as good as with alu.

But back to the issue.. Howat's tests showed that Conti Carbon cement was somewhat stronger than the general formulation but also found it much more difficult to use. I'm not familiar with any thermal tests of the "Carbon Glue" but he found that at 60C the general Conti glue looses 50% of its "performance" compared to @ 20C--- Mastik1 did a bit better (65%).

As an aside.. In real praxis heat from braking effecting tubular glue is MORE a problem with alu than carbon/wood rims. Bonding, on the other hand, is more a problem with carbon.

Not that my commuter will ever get used in the Alps, but the road bike is being used in the mountains next month, and I'd rather I didn't roll a tyre there.

Just try to not ride the brake... As long as you are going more or less straight and not terribly fast into curves even if the rim cement is flowing you are not going to "roll" a tyre. If you think its bad then stop and let the wheels cool down--- I known more than a few people that have blown out their clincher inner-tubes riding down the Brenner pass into Italy.

I ride a lot in the pre-Alps and I've had to stop on more than a few occassions riding very steep serpentines in heavy traffic--- one can't do anything but ride the brake. Since one is going pretty slow one can feel when the glue is going soft. With carbon rims your main worry, I think, will be the brake pads.

With carbon rims I'd just mix a bit of Patex into the cement. TEROKAL 2444 outperforms rims cements with Conti tyres but is ill-suited to road changes.

Here's my solution for spare tub carrying, just in case anyone's interested. A Tufo Elite <120g rolled up in a Scicon Aeronaut saddle bag:

Saddlebag fitted, including a fairly chunky multi-tool:

Given the flimsiness of the Elite <120g, it's definitely only a 'get you home' tyre, and only after Pitstop hasn't worked. But it'll give me the (probably illusory) security of having a spare tub with me, without the retro-style 'folded up tub held on with an old toe strap' look.

That has folded up very small indeed- barely larger than an inner tube.

Yep. Here's hoping I never have to use it.

Snap, I have a pre-glued Corsa Evo CX+valve extender that go in a saddle bag.

Always happy when I take the saddle bag off and put it back on the shelf untouched.

Ah, valve extender. I knew I'd forgotten something. Now where is the bloody thing...

Here's my solution for spare tub carrying, just in case anyone's interested. A Tufo Elite <120g rolled up in a Scicon Aeronaut saddle bag

The Tufo Elite 160 is quite popular for that use. I'm, however, not too convinced as I suspect that the spare might not be useable when it comes time to use it. My experience has been that tubular tyres don't keep as well tightly jammed into a bag on the bike as back at home in a cardboard box (or wheel bags). The Elite is also a flimsy tyre.

They are also not cheap.

As a tubular tyre user one nearly always has some junked tyres about. Too good to throw away but no longer good 'nuf to bother with. These make, I feel, the best spares. Weight? The real weight of the Elite 160 is more like 220g. Both the 22mm Conti Tempo and 19mm Conti Competitions are about the same weight. Space? A 19mm Conti Tempo is pretty darn tiny (and much lighter than the Tufo)! I would never purchase a Tempo as a road spare but a lot of us have them from the track... The Tufo track Elite 125? Don't know anyone that uses them on the track.. On the road.. forget it..

Some newbie questions...

RE spare tubs. If you glue tubs to the rim, you have to let the glue dry for 6 hours (per manual). Obviously on a pre-glued tub the glue may be on for days or weeks.

Does this matter at all? Or do you need to reglue every so often?

Then part two of the question: With the local climate if I DO get a p_nctr it will probably be pishing down with rain, if sealant fails there's no point bringing glue for the rim as I can't apply it in rain. So, you put the already stretched glued tub over, pump up as hard as you can and very, very gently cycle home?

Does it really matter then there's already glue on the tub, or is that glue for ideal circumstances when you can reglue on the road?

As I will be on my own cycling to work etc...so if I run into trouble no help.

when you pre glue a tub, how do you fold it up without it sticking itself together?

you do stick it together. It won't stick that much and is easy to unstick. It is the appliance of pressure that really makes the glues stick.

Some newbie questions...

RE spare tubs. If you glue tubs to the rim, you have to let the glue dry for 6 hours (per manual). Obviously on a pre-glued tub the glue may be on for days or weeks.

Does this matter at all? Or do you need to reglue every so often?

Then part two of the question: With the local climate if I DO get a p_nctr it will probably be pishing down with rain, if sealant fails there's no point bringing glue for the rim as I can't apply it in rain. So, you put the already stretched glued tub over, pump up as hard as you can and very, very gently cycle home?

Does it really matter then there's already glue on the tub, or is that glue for ideal circumstances when you can reglue on the road?

Leaving glue on a pre glued tyre for 6 hours six days six weeks makes little difference. It is a contact adhesive. It should still work after a fair while, but not years and years.

Resticking a tub in the wet is very tricky, and unlikely to work properly so ride gingerly or use clinchers in the rain. You don't carry spare glue on a ride, you carry a pre glued tub, and if you do get a p*nct*re try and get somewhere dry to sort it out.

Tx that clears it up :)

As with initial glue you have to glue the rim too I thought merely gluing the tub wouldnt work at all.

That's plan b getting some clincher rims and build clincher wheels. As it's a vintage ciocc you can't whip on any wheel.

What about tape just for the emergency pissing-down-with-rain mid-ride tyre fitting? I'd rather have properly glued tyres normally, but if it's just a get-you-home gentle-riding fix then would it be better than a pre-glued tub with old glue?

What about tape just for the emergency pissing-down-with-rain mid-ride tyre fitting? I'd rather have properly glued tyres normally, but if it's just a get-you-home gentle-riding fix then would it be better than a pre-glued tub with old glue?

Don't think so. Tape is just not something to do in the field.

Unless you are trying to replace a tyre at the track, race a criterium or ride quickly down mountain serpentines there is little to worry about with spare tyres and glue on the rims. The point of tubular mastic is to stay sticky. As long as the glue has not "dried out" (then it did not really work with the old tyre either) its designed to maintain stick. That's the difference between road mastics and what we use on the track or in criteriums. Track glue is designed to hold better and provide much lower rolling resistance but its not "reuseable".

How well does old glue hold? WIth a bit of riding and heat I've found it to hold very well. I've often found it very difficult to remove my spares.

Seeing, however, that its an emergency spare and perhaps the old tyre was not properly glued just don't ride hard. Even without good cement tyres hold remarkably well to rims. If there are no strong lateral forces there is something to push the tyre off the rim. Its these forces that the glue restrains. A tyre inflated to 8 bar has a very strong grip on a rim.

I'm about to order my tubular rims. They are extra wide firecrest-esque. As I understand it, the optimal tyre size for good aeros, with these rims, is 22mm. But in a clincher I'd usually like something a little bigger in the back. Any thoughts on the following tub selection for good roads, on a MAMILs bestest weekend bike.

Dugast Strada cotton, 22mm front, 25mm rear.

My pit stop just arrived from wiggle, going to give it a shot tonight before race training, see if it works.

Dugast Strada cotton, 22mm front, 25mm rear.

For posh bling... If its good weather only I'd go with FMB Competition CX 227/25s in silk.. Silk is a bit more expensive but in good weather its much nicer riding.. just just don't like getting soaked too much as they can tend to rot out.. If you want robust then the FMB Paris-Roubaix are a much better choice.. If not PRs front and rear.. PR rear and a CX front.
From an aesthetic point of view, however, FMBs and Zipp carbon are not quite harmonious--- the tyres are quite old school. Something like the new all-black Conti Comps or Veloflex Carbons will, I think, look nicer and make a better statement at the espresso bar..

Is Norway the espresso capital of Scandinavia?

I would be in favour of this btw.

For posh bling... If its good weather only I'd go with FMB Competition CX 227/25s in silk.. Silk is a bit more expensive but in good weather its much nicer riding.. just just don't like getting soaked too much as they can tend to rot out.. If you want robust then the FMB Paris-Roubaix are a much better choice.. If not PRs front and rear.. PR rear and a CX front.
From an aesthetic point of view, however, FMBs and Zipp carbon are not quite harmonious--- the tyres are quite old school. Something like the new all-black Conti Comps or Veloflex Carbons will, I think, look nicer and make a better statement at the espresso bar..

The store that stocks the Dugast now stock FMBs. They're £20 per tyre more expensive.
They have both cotton and silk, Dugast and FMB. But I did'nt think the silk was worth the extra cost and reduced robustness. I'll rethink that somewhat.

Veloflex Carbon were top of my list. I get on well with their open tubulars. They seem to hit the sweetspot for me in terms of performance vs robustness/cost. But I can get the Dugast cheaper here.

Is Norway the espresso capital of Scandinavia?

Probably the exact opposite.

I grab tepid coffee from ferrys. Not many folk around to make a statement to. Unless deer and salmon appreciate nice tyres.