Blood on the streets

I've seen Boris pedalling through Clerkenwell a few times.
csb etc

• If a cyclist is caught committing an offense – a choice between a fine and cycle training/cycle safety course
  
  
  

I have reservations, to put it mildly, about cycle training being used as a punishment. And no matter how much we might dress it up as education, in that situation it would be seen as punishment. It's bad enough with surly teenagers whose parents have made them come along.
On the other hand I would, judging by what I read every day, get to meet a lot more forumengers face to face. It's lose-lose, really.

I've seen Boris pedalling through Clerkenwell a few times.
csb etc

Well, as I always tell people, the last time I saw him on a bike he was riding the wrong way down Pall Mall, back when it was a one-way street. I suppose that was before he became such an evangelist for obeying the law.

You're right Oliver - there's been some really biased, vitriolic press lately - though mainly the columnists from what I've read.

It's a tough one to get right - too much media coverage of the dangers will scare people and prevent uptake, whereas too little doesn't help raise awareness and makes it seem no one takes the matter of safety seriously.

I have reservations, to put it mildly, about cycle training being used as a punishment.

I see your point, it should definitely be a different experience to the same cycle training you give to people who go willingly, with more emphasis on the dangers and consequences of bad actions. I was thinking something similar to speed awareness courses (not that I know what they're like but they seem to have an impact).

But even enforced, grumpily-received education is going to have more positive long term effects than a rap on the knuckles or a fine.

today, apparently

https://twitter.com/EatSleepCycle/status/403576363640029184

I was meant to be mechanicing for this but am training at a victoria school this week. It looks like Anna was talking about Bojo, not Andrew the gut Gilliagan.

It's not just cyclists causing challenges for HGV drivers. Watch the below YouTube link - cars, pedestrians, other HGVs...
HGV driving near-misses in london....! - YouTube

Amazing, the lack of attention, poor road positioning and aggression of this tipper driver demonstrates why that sort of vehicle is involved in almost half the cyclist fatalities in London

You're right Oliver - there's been some really biased, vitriolic press lately - though mainly the columnists from what I've read.

It's a tough one to get right - too much media coverage of the dangers will scare people and prevent uptake, whereas too little doesn't help raise awareness and makes it seem no one takes the matter of safety seriously.

It's all completely misguided crap and in some cases outright lies.
STOP confusing the annoying with the potentially lethal.
Dark clothes, RLJing, no looking back/communicating rarely leads to death.
Texting behind the wheel, failing to signal, close passes, belligerently following cycle lanes does kill.

I see your point, it should definitely be a different experience to the same cycle training you give to people who go willingly, with more emphasis on the dangers and consequences of bad actions. I was thinking something similar to speed awareness courses (not that I know what they're like but they seem to have an impact).

But even enforced, grumpily-received education is going to have more positive long term effects than a rap on the knuckles or a fine.

Best punishment for cyclists is to put them face to face with haulage drivers and face their complaints and raw anger. You'd need more front than the Wigan Pier to not feel anything afterwards.

More bollocks:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/21/londons-cycling-culture-dangerous?commentpage=1
A first class troll. Many of the comments underneath have been deleted, including this one
https://twitter.com/BazilBrush/status/403665729318567936/photo/1/large but this one from Jeez is still there
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/21/londons-cycling-culture-dangerous#comment-29099636

Just have a standard for lorries that are "city-safe", and only those that pass the standard are allowed to drive in central London.
Instore the same driver's responsibility laws that they have in Denmark/Netherlands and give firmer sentences and better efforts to find those driving people over.
Make the cyclist's driver's license at risk if he does not observe the rules of the road (this would make it unfair, but would make a larger group OBEY)

Make the cyclist's driver's license at risk if he does not observe the rules of the road (this would make it unfair, but would make a larger group OBEY)

Theoretically that is possible now, but it seems inequitable to me, since a cyclist who quite legitimately has no driving licence would be punished more leniently than one with.

police were out in force today all along cs7... ticketing RLJ'ers.

Only saw them pull one person over though.

Did see about 10 drivers on their phones, got a punishment pass from a cab for 'holding' him up when I had a bus in front of me and they'd removed two sets of crossing lights designed to help cyclists avoid nasty junction, one of them making an entire backroad cycle path I use to avoid the south wimbledon junction inaccessible.

I feel safer already.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/22/driving_selfies_become_next_stupid_kid_craze/

What Ramaye is doing while on sabbatical?

Saw a dude on a bike being spoken to by a motorcycle cop on Rosebery Ave this morning, just moments after being passed by an aggro bus driver ie: pulls out over takes a bunch of riders the slams on brakes to pull into stop. clever. Do you think the cop noticed or cared? Nope.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/22/driving_selfies_become_next_stupid_kid_craze/

No surprised there, considering everyone seemed to think it's perfectly legal to use their smartphone while operating a vehicles.

Why's so quiet?

^^^^^ Hey, you should send this to Guardian bike blog where it belongs

Well, this:

Remember that in wet conditions your stopping distance will be much longer than that of a car.

is unmitigated bollocks. He also misrepresents the stats on blame apportioned to cyclists and writes some utter claptrap about the LCC not interested in road safety.

That whole article is like the Counter Point bloke from Airplane:

They bought the tickets, they knew the risks, I say let them crash!"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/22/driving_selfies_become_next_stupid_kid_craze/

It's outrageous that people are doing this while driving their 2000lb autos on our highways.

I believe that that figure can also be expressed as 0.7 of an American Citizen.

He does not say that LCC are not interested in road safety - he says that their website should do more to encourage cyclists to cycle safely.

The London Cycling Campaign is no better. Its website reminds cyclists to check their tyre pressures and brakes but fails to say anything about front and rear lights, or about hi-vis clothing or how to stay safe on the road.

That is quite simply untrue. He made it up.

http://lcc.org.uk/articles/good-cycling-code

(1) Very strict punishments and many more cameras. 5 year ban for doing 36 mph in a 30 limit. 5 years for tailgating on the motorway. 20 years for causing an accident. Too unpopular amongst drivers to be government policy and too harmful to the economy to have half the country unable to drive to their jobs and pay taxes.

Do you really believe the 'harmful to the economy' argument or are you just using it as a parody of newspaper articles? Up until the 1980s loads of people got the (at that time nationalised) buses, or walked, or cycled to work. Even outside London in semi-rural areas, as I well remember...the roads were full of guys clanking round with their Ever Readys burning. The economy didn't grind to a halt and they didn't even have home working via the Internet in those days.

If we're talking about the lack of appetite to restrict car drivers, the problem is purely that these days everyone sees car ownership as a right, not a privilege. It's far too easy and comparatively cheap to own a car - any fool can manage it, and there's just as much casual transgression of rules by motorists as by cyclists (who even knows what a 'parking light' is used for now for example? They're still required by the Highway Code on some roads). There's a reason those old codgers with string backed driving gloves invariably have immaculate cars and are often slow (and careful) drivers. They remember a time when buying a car was a massive commitment - and it should be a massive commitment; you're wielding a ton of metal after all. Ideally we should be looking at ways to make driving, psychologically, a little bit more like the privilege it once was.

/csbish froth over

In short I don't see any reason for cyclists to give much leeway, even if some of them are gutter riding nodders. There's a far more significant principle here

[quote]The London Cycling Campaign is no better. Its website reminds cyclists to check their tyre pressures and brakes but fails to say anything about front and rear lights, or about hi-vis clothing or how to stay safe on the road.
That is quite simply untrue. He made it up.

http://lcc.org.uk/articles/good-cycling-code[/quote] Either the guy wrote that without looking at our website or he is deliberately lying.
That behaviour defines internet trolling.

He also suggests we shouldn't complain because £1bn's being spent on cycling in London. Most of that will go on "consultants"- cronies of Boris, in other words. He also claims pro-cycling campaigners never admit cyclists make mistakes. It's all made-up rubbish.

Here's an idea that would take a minor legislative change but might be very educational for bad drivers:

Reach 3 points on your licence, get a one week ban
Reach 6 points on your licence, get a two week ban
Reach 9 points on your licence, get a four week ban
Reach 12 points - get a ban as currently - I suggest a minimum of 1 year.

I suggest this so that people who commit traffic offences are reminded a) that driving is a privilege, and b) give them an taste of what a ban will be like if they don't make more effort to drive well.