Polo bike geometry + addons

Im kind of lost. I think longer a-c distance is an advantage because you can get a more natural position whitout a too long head tube, raiser bar or spacers

Longer headtube with a shorter axle to crown fork is stronger in frontal impacts.

Totally didn't know about this thread.
I would like to think that the polo world could help each other with bike 'recipes', what got burnt and what tasted good (etc.)

Posted this in the polo bike thread but I guess it's relevant here (#mods are slipping)

I'm still really interested in geo for polo (and still think that LDN has the best knowledge).
Matt mentioned something about the cosmic bikes not nessarily going for the smallest wheelbase? Where I was under the impression the smaller the 'turnier'.
I gather Ryan doesn't think curved seat posts are better. But having the seat over the rear wheel gives better manoeuvrability?
What's the ideal trail?
And BB height?

I know these are all variable depending on many factors, but if you wanted to draw up your own bike, are you just looking for it to be as tight and sturdy as possible?

I appreciate also there isn't a succinct answer, but it's good to chat innit.
#missesLPC

About sloppey, i really like to ride sloppey bike, you get rid of this fucking top tube who just want to kick you knees every time you try to rotate while jumping. Also you get loose some weight.

preach!

i love my sloppey bike

My 2 cents on polo geometry. I mostly agree with glowbike. However I think two key things missing are riding position and play style. If you look at the current geometries they're mostly getting pretty similar now (in the same way equipment has) so riding position has a big effect.

Example 1: Low trail (late 50's - early 60s) will give you more responsive steering but make you less stable. You can regain that stability with a forward riding positon more inline with the front axle with the addition of long low-ish stem (I use 110mm).

Example 2: If you corner at speed, you probably want a high bb. If you're slower and but more technical go for really compact wheel base and lower bb.

too much trail = barge, too little = jack-knifetastic.

I think you have to be a fairly mature player to know what kind of bike you want for polo – I don't mean only Bill knows, I mean you need to have played a lot, and on a lot of different bikes. It's only through trial and error that you realise what suits you, and that will not necessarily suit all players.

Currently I'm playing on a Fuji Track, and I couldn't be happier. 12 months ago I was playing on my Marino, and I couldn't be happier. Those bikes could hardly be more different. The small wheelbase, tight turning circle and small wheels of my Marino did everything that I wanted them to do, but what I wanted to do/how I wanted to play changed. My Marino is still a great bike to play polo on but not for me anymore.

I think a few constants have emerged in polo bike design: it seems to be widely acknowledged that a trail in the low 60s and a BB height of at least 285 suit the game. But in terms of wheelbase and the style of the build, it is very much tailored to the style of the rider. If you want to turn tight, get a small wheelbase, but understand that this affects overall stability. It is a balancing act, a decision has to be made at some point – you can't have it all.

It's very hard to advise others on what bike to get when you don't know how they want to play; I think the two are inextricably linked. So I'd start by evaluating your game and considering what it is you want to do differently, with that information it will be relatively easy to specify your whole build: from bar width to wheelbase to saddle position.

Doesn't a different geometry affect the style of play? Or do you still try to play the same style?

As long as your bars are 57cm, the rest falls into place.

Doesn't a different geometry affect the style of play?

IMO yes. That's the point I was trying to make, however badly.

So if I wanted to change my style to something I perceive as being better would I change the bike first or try to play more consciously?

@glowbike : thanks for the explanations, that's very helpful for understanding what makes a good frame. No I won't order a Marino, we have some good framebuilders here in Belgium.

@O'shane your geo looks nice ! both in terms of measurement and in graphic design

Thanks. I draw all my imagined geometry's on a free version of Illustrator

So if I wanted to change my style to something I perceive as being better would I change the bike first or try to play more consciously?

It's obviously cheaper and easier to do it on the existing bike. Then you'll realise if your bike is limiting you or not. If it is limiting you, change it. If it's not limiting you, keep everything as it is and play more polo to increase consistency.

Or don't. Polo is over-hyped IMO. There's some good TV on right now. Anyone watching Utopia on 4? S'really good.

Forgot how much you could change with a few components. Oops.

I can't get 4. Ripper Street on the BBC is good.

The 'bad' polo geo is freely available. I'd suggest asking cosmic or 14bike themselves if they are going to make the 'cosmic' geo avails.

I'm not sure what jimmy changed. Cam changed some things on his 14 too.

All geometry should be freely available! Who would buy a bike without knowing the geometry?! You should be able to speak to any bike manufacturer/frame builder and find out the geometry of a bike that is for sale as this should/will inform your purchase.

I'm not sure if/how our bikes will be sold right now, but if/when they are, geo will definitely be available. I made the geo of my Marino available on our blog, you can see it here. I built it around a widely available 700c fork, despite using 26" wheels for the reasons Clement mentioned: shorter head-tube and replaceability.

Following Wicksie's post in the 'Polo Bikes' thread, there are now some posts in there that might make sense to be modded into here?

Both pretty good.

good advice rupert. Its very true. I have changed alot but still have the same frame, all things change your game. Stems, bars, wheels, brakes, type of them, 2 or 1. tyres. The weather even. Good shout on the tv too.

Having 1 tyre made things a lot harder for me.

Mine has ended up something like this. Longer top tube than most but I like it.

I've tried everything, nothing changes my 'game'...

It's off-season anyway, you should all be getting laid...
#footiethreadreference

I think the importance of 'stability' is overplayed in a game where you never go more than 20mph* and are constantly changing direction. I've got a fairly tight wheelbase, low trail and high b/b and have never, ever, not even once felt unstable at 'high' speed on court. Or off-court at 30mph going down a hill either for that matter. And I have double wheel covers (drifty) and am top-heavy (big head).

IMO seat height, seat fore/aft, bar height, reach, tiller (/stem) length, wheel size, wheel weight and body-weight distribution are all going to have a massive effect on handling which makes comparing and contrasting and isolating out the effect of, say 10mm less trail or 1 degree more head angle nigh-on impossible

Maybe I'm an overly frantic player, but I much prefer the maneuverability/nimbleness of my Marino to the stability/sluggishness of my Pompino and Day One. But I've never tried anything 'tighter' (14?) so I don't know if there's such a thing as too nimble.

*Never actually checked, but seems plausible.

obviously this is all within the context of over-thinking things in hyper-detail

Every component has an effect on how your bike rides, so I would consider the effect of it all. I understand your point that comparing/contrasting/isolating is difficult but I think it shouldn't mean you don't do it. If you're putting a bike together, consider everything if you can afford to, otherwise raid your parts bin and go play!

I think stability is a concern relevant to static play as well as moving. IME wheelbase affects stability when hopping, in contact and standing in goal.

isolating out the effect of, say 10mm less trail or 1 degree more head angle nigh-on impossible
got to disagree. I've been running an adjustable setup for over a year now. A degree makes a noticeable difference to low speed handling and 10mm of trail is huge!

To make the point, If you do a trackstand your front wheel will naturally want to sit at the point where your wheel will jack-knife. (the more you lean the less your wheel wants to be turned too.) You can visibly see the difference it makes due to the point where your wheel will sit and will feel much heavier through the bars as you turn. In practise, more trail lets you turn much tighter and stops having to pedal so much to correct understeer.

As a little experiment:
If you have a cartridge headset you can run a split-ring instead of the crown race and space it up and down using standard headset spacers. Not a long term setup but will give you a feel for what a difference these small things make.

I changed to a completely new and different bike for this year. I wanted to change my style of play and a lot of people have commented on how my style has changed. (although most of them were saying "where have the pivots and tricks gone!?") I could not play the way I want to now on my old bike. That isnt a bad thing but I wanted to change it up. So I feel a bike can heavily influence your style of play but at the same time after you change something on your bike I would really give it a go and not change it due to the 'latest trends'.