Polo Bikes

This is total bullshit, Jimmy... Get your money back, give it to Ryan... Job done...

I want to at least give Lee the opportunity to fix the mistakes. It's just frustrating I can't talk to him as he's on holiday, and John knows about as much about frame building as I do and is super vague about what can be done.

Anyway, I've been pissing about in BikeCAD, since I have the opportunity to redesign the frame I've added some rake and taken some length out of the TT to shorten the reach. I'm not really cool with giving this to Lee, though. I'm not a frame designer. I want to have a conversation with him, and he does the drawing...

http://www.bikecad.ca/1344361216491

Any Geo-Nerds I welcome your input!

Looks good. Might want to make the head tube 74 degree though?

Whyso? I'm trying to bear in mind toe overlap, but yeah I guess I've still got room to move. I'm really unsure on messing with the forks and giving them rake at this point. I've done another version without rake and a 72 angle.

Watch for toe overlap if you're running pedals as big as the picture.

You've got a PM Jimmy.

I'd love it if we could get our customers to design everything for us, actually no I wouldn't because that would put me out of a job and everything we made wouldn't work as they don't have our skills or know our manufacturing parameters.

I'd step away from bikeCAD, wait till the builder is back off holls and go through it properly, you should be paying for their design as well as their build, having said that, if you've approved a drawing, even if it doesn't meet your spec, you have to take some of the responsibility.

I'd step away from bikeCAD.

Me too. If you draw something, send it off and then find out it's wrong, you're even worse off.

Yeah, either you are paying to fuck about with geo and make what you want and live with it, or you are paying for a nice bike based on the ideas you have given to the people who are building it. Don't pay for one and do the other. They should fix this for you and fix it well, and give you pretty trinkets to make up for the bother.

I'd step away from bikeCAD, wait till the builder is back off holls and go through it properly, you should be paying for their design as well as their build, having said that, if you've approved a drawing, even if it doesn't meet your spec, you have to take some of the responsibility.

Totally right to a point. I think if the client has specified in a brief that it meets a certain criteria the designer has to uphold his/hers obligation to that or has to deliver an appropriate solution.

Jimmy, you're going through the right steps by finding out as best you can how to improve the situation. Definitely offer your thoughts on how you can get what you want to the builder as it may save time for him if you've come up with the solution. By no means at all though say this is what you want unless you are dead sure.

Working on buildings is the same there is often nothing you can do about something which has been built incorrectly. You can offer amendments which may make it better and reduce the waiting time but this is a often a compromise to a re-build (which takes longer)

I'd wait and get it done properly. You'll be on court before you know it.

John sent me and it's trail was 96mm.... wtf? Was under the impression ideal Trail was 64/65/66?

If you've ridden Emmet's, and like it, then you'll be fine with 96 trail. But the more recent common consensus is that trail in the 60s is better. But it's personal preference.

Also if you're messing in CAD and that is different to your spec, where does rectification become modification? The builder could charge you for changes as they are now outside the original spec.

You could find that they've sent you the wrong frame or its got mixed up somewhere and all the stress & faffing isn't needed.

Yeah, either you are paying to fuck about with geo and make what you want and live with it, or you are paying for a nice bike based on the ideas you have given to the people who are building it. Don't pay for one and do the other. They should fix this for you and fix it well, and give you pretty trinkets to make up for the bother.

This is why I want a discussion with Lee about the mistakes, and not to have to send him a BikeCAD. I just got stressed when looking at the drawing I was sent, because none of it makes sense to me. The numbers could say anything to be honest and I'd have no idea what it means. I just know it needs to be 52cm seat tube so I can get my leg over the thing. It's a fucker I have to wait two weeks.

But hey, you're getting a custom made 14 polo frame. That's a pretty awesome thing to look forward to! And when it's done, all this will fade in comparison and you'll be happy you soldiered through it. Stay strong, James!!

^Exactly! I know your hopes got dashed but hopefully you'll come out of this with more awareness of geo and exactly what can make a good bike.
In fact, it was probably a good thing this happened as you've now been given the opportunity to rethink exactly what you want and go back to them with some specifics.

I am trying to see it that way! It's just difficult when you have all the rest of the bits, and a bike that you don't want to spend any money on falling to pieces, and in all honesty I've had a shitty time of things through most of this summer and I was looking forward to riding it a lot. I still am!

I continue to say to everyone telling me to just ask for my money back, it's massively unfair not to give them a chance to sort it out.

I'm confident it'll be sorted out one way or the other.

I was just thinking about your situation jimmy the last couple days. I understand your frustration with the whole issue and know how disapointting it is to wait for something only for it not to work in the correct way. I have indeed been in exactly the same place and all I can say wait it out and it will all come good in the end.
Secondly I have the exact same drop outs as you and like yours I can only fit a 1.3 in max....although I was just looking at the drop puts themselves and came up with an idea that could be simpler that making a whole new frame. Why not ask 14 if the can machine a new set of the inserts for the dropouts with the part that the axle sits in slightly (5-8mm) further back than It currently sits? That way the wheel would sit further back in the frame and give clearance for a bigger tyre...? I might be talk crap out of my mouth but it is a quicker easier option that a new frame????

Otherwise Hayden will buy your old one as he needs a new bike and only wants small tyres...

Even with 1.3's at current you wouldnt have enough room to tension the chain even with a halflink. I already had the idea about the inserts, but SuperTed said it'd take longer to machine new ones than change or make a new frame. Well, for Lee, anyway.

I'm sticking with it, too, I just have to wait for Lee to get back to have a discussion.

There are two sides to every story. I have heard 2 sides. You guys have only heard Jim's. You will get the bike you want, but if you deviate from the spec sheet you should know what you are doing. In the case of Josh for example, he did not order the 14 polo bike.
Josh ordered what he thought would make a better polo bike than the 14polo bike. He didnt like it and now he has a replacement which is made from the spec sheet and is the same geo as Luca, emmet, dt, me and he likes it ... go figure.

i think slagging 14 off on the internet is getting a bit much, i mean even TS has come back from the dead to chuck his tuppence in. You have spent a big chunk of your wages on a PB jim and you have got extras for free, because i know what you paid.

Be fair here, yes it takes time to get what you want, that is the nature of custom, but dont go slagging off the company that is trying to give you what you want.

I don't think i've been slagging off 14 by talking about their process of getting an error fixed. It's the nature of their business, maybe, but communications have been sporadic and vague throughout the process. John isn't a framebuilder, and with Lee away, has mostly been confused and/or avoiding it. He has never at any time said he wouldn't fix the issue, which is also what I've said in this thread. This doesn't, however, mean I can't be nervous about it.

As discussed previously, I don't know what I'm doing with frame design, so won't deviate from the spec, I just want my rear wheel to fit in! This is what frustrated me so much about John asking me to go into BikeCAD. I was already nervous about a mistake that'd been made, now I was being told to 'do it myself', when all I'd asked for was "a bike that handled like Chris'". It was only after a long phonecall where I finally admitted how bloody nervous I was about the whole thing that he said he'd only suggested BikeCAD as he thought I was the type of person who would embrace having that kind of power, he apologised when I told him I thought I was paying for 14's design skills and not geting them to just build something I'd come up with. This is when we agreed I'd be talking with Lee when he gets back.

I feel like I am being fair, I don't think like I'm going around saying "Never buy a bike from 14". I feel like I'm pointing out some things they have to learn about how they communicate with customers and get a situation resolved.

yeah, I dont think Jimmys being unfair here. If you order a custom bike you expect top quality unless its a Marino/similar cutprice alternative. He has simply documented the experience and it cant really be argued that 14 have messed up this one, it would piss me off if i was in the same situation but it certainly hasnt read like hes saying never buy from 14 bikes. There are enough sweet 14 built polo bikes around to know that when they get it right the results are pretty top quality. I think Jimmys just disapointed that he didnt get that quality at the first time of asking

It was only after a long phonecall where I finally admitted how bloody nervous I was about the whole thing that he said he'd only suggested BikeCAD as he thought I was the type of person who would embrace having that kind of power, he apologised when I told him I thought I was paying for 14's design skills and not geting them to just build something I'd come up with.

I think this shows that they do want to resolve this in the best way possible. I too don't think you've been unreasonable, but obviously there were some grey areas from the beginning of the process (them thinking you wanted to design the thing yourself), be that their interpretation of your conversations or not, but at least John does seem keen to solve it. Just wait for Lee, have a completely honest conversation with him and maybe just speak to him solely. It'll come good, Jimmy, hang in there!

+1

Oh i'm sure it'll come good once Lee gets back and I can talk to him, and I just want to remind everyone that me being critical of their communication and process isn't me slagging them off. I also want to remind everyone that although Lee is on holiday, John has worked with me to rule out any quick fixes, and has constantly assured me they'll get it right when he's back, he's also apologised when communication hasn't been great and either one of us has got the wrong end of the stick.

This is precisely why I picked 14 over the plethora of others. I didn't like the idea of a custom frame coming from a different continent when there's so much that could potentially be an issue. This is also why I'm confident it'll be fixed. i'd be far far far more nervous, worried, annoyed, if there was a language barrier and a time-zone difference!

Quit whining. Play polo.