The Ultimate Brakeless/Front/Rear/How many brakes? thread

Dont ride like a twat.
Dont waste a good pie by skimping on the custard (Hippy).

Wiser things have been said, just not by me.

htbry?

i don't think that drunk driving and brakeless riding are on a par. and if making this comparison is going to be the agenda of the article that is potentially going to be published then i hope it will contain facts and figures to back it up.

No, read my post, my point was that it is akin to the argument that drivers make. In that the so-called experienced and intelligent brakeless riders say "well,*** I*** can handle a bike fine with no brakes, therefore it should not be illegal", totally discounting the fact that the practice itself is inherently dangerous, not everyone else is going to be as so 'with it' as they are.

FWIW (and sidetracking) I dont think drunk driving and brakeless riding (or even drunk riding, or drunk brakeless riding) are on a par with drink driving. Being drunk in charge of a large heavy piece of motorised metal is insane.
But I do think that people who ride brakeless are equally as stupid, irresponsible, dismissive, and dishonest to the truth, as motorists who claim that having "just a pint or two" before getting behind the wheel is perfectly reasonable. Its the same bullshit logic. I'm a bit slower to react, therefore I drive slower and more careful. I'm a bit slower to brake, therefore I cycle slower and more careful.

I even think despite the comments on here, deep down, all brakeless riders know full well its less safe, both to themselves and others, but wont bring themselves to admit it.

If the cops do ban it, I'd love to see them do tests on leg vs. standard braking with a large number of people (so its "statistically significant" or whatever, to satisfy the whingers that think that there needs to be thousands of people riding around unable to stop to demonstrate conclusively that its dangerous) on a closed track, with different speeds, to see the real stopping power of people's legs. Cycle computers to measure speed. A whistle blown to indicate an emergency stop. I think we all know which group would win.

Argh... I'm getting sucked back in... must... escape...

Great. Sparky so you are going to make the Met aware of how big brakeless riding is? So now the PSCOs will have more power, not just FPN to give out, now they'll be able to confiscaite our bikes too. Thanks.

Stoopid kierin frame making my life difficult. Why do I love it so?

Great. Sparky so you are going to make the Met aware of how big brakeless riding is? So now the PSCOs will have more power, not just FPN to give out, now they'll be able to confiscaite our bikes too. Thanks.

i agree

Don't do it, for the love of.

What's the price?

Please think of the children.

Forum whip round to hush up/ knock off Sparky...

Dont ride like a twat.
Dont waste a good pie by skimping on the custard (Hippy).

Wiser things have been said, just not by me.

Custard?

Neg repped.

Argh... I'm getting sucked back in... must... escape...

excellent, i was trying to do that!

i genuinely believe that in the situations that i ride brakeless i have a level of control that is safe, and safer than many other cyclists, such as the types who perform no maintenance on their rusty old bicycles.

i know that my bike that is equipped with v brakes stops faster and with more power, i'm not trying to argue that i have the same level of control over the bike. but in the manner i ride the bike i feel it is safe enough to do so without being stupid or irresponsible.

i can see why you would say that the delusion that drink drivers show in their arguments and justification is the same but i disagree, and make my choices soberly and considerately.

i ride my brakeless bike at times because it is enjoyable, i love the bike and i love riding it, if i had a brake on it i would ride the bike differently and it is the difference that i enjoy.

this thread/debate, represented in sculpture

... I pay my own tax too so maybe I'll pay for my own A&E treatment.

Impossible.
If you go private you can pay for your own A&E (but you can't fund it from your tax deductions).
The point is we all (taxpayers) pay for everything funded through tax (public healthcare etc...). So someones stupidity that causes them (or other ppl) to end up in A&E is paid for by all of us, like it or not.

I don't really get the 'Emergency stop, front brake DANGER' argument.
Has anyone here ever actually gone over the bars from braking too suddenly using only their front brake?
I can't recall that I (or anyone I know) ever has. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but most of us are somewhat experienced bike handlers and are more than capable of coming to an emergency stop using the front brake without going over the bars (also we mostly all have a rear brake or fixed rear so will be slowing ourselves down with the rear at the same time - reducing risk of going over the bars. I know that once the rear wheel is in the air its not braking but it will brake a bit before going airbound, which it rarely does).
So surely this rather thin argument is only really relevant to ppl who only ride single speed with a front brake and/or don't know anything about riding a bike (ppl who don't know how to slow a fixed wheel down using their legs etc... in which case they'd have zero stopping power if not for the front brake).

unless a tiered NHS process get's implemented where self inflicted stuff goes to the bottom of the list (smoking related, drinking related, fixie skidder related)
Think that might be one for another debate though!

I don't really get the 'Emergency stop, front brake DANGER' argument.
Has anyone here ever actually gone over the bars from braking too suddenly using only their front brake?
I can't recall that I (or anyone I know) ever has. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but most of us are somewhat experienced bike handlers and are more than capable of coming to an emergency stop using the front brake without going over the bars (also we mostly all have a rear brake or fixed rear so will be slowing ourselves down with the rear at the same time - reducing risk of going over the bars. I know that once the rear wheel is in the air its not braking but it will brake a bit before going airbound, which it rarely does).
So surely this rather thin argument is only really relevant to ppl who only ride single speed with a front brake and/or don't know anything about riding a bike (ppl who don't know how to slow a fixed wheel down using their legs etc... in which case they'd have zero stopping power if not for the front brake).

Jobst Brandt article saying going over the bars is not really a braking issue... interesting if you got the time. Or keep melting your face on the road.

a few people on here, have gone over the bars in an emergency grabbing a handful of front brake, there are a few broken collar bones to prove it

The last time I went over the bars was when I first rode fixed around 7 years ago and nothing to do with front brake. Did the classic stop pedalling mistake to the point where rather than just jolt/lift the rear wheel it completely threw me over the bars. Still not really sure how this can happen but it does, and only once!

a few people on here, have gone over the bars in an emergency grabbing a handful of front brake, there are a few broken collar bones to prove it

I've done it before but this was before i learnt how to ride a bike properly. Its complete user-error, but if this is really an issue you could swap brakes like the americans. Certainly no justification for not having a front brake!

Not sure why anyone would want to ride with only a back brake though (fixed or otherwise), most of your stopping power is in the front brake.. I thought everyone liked going fast.

I grabbed a big handful of front brake just as I got to the lights at a crossroads near E&C a couple of years back. It had just gone red as I got near and I decided I needed to not be going across, but I tipped up forwards and went right through the junction on my front wheel.

Terrifying, exhilarating and completely unrepeatable, even if I had eternity to practice in.

But that was a real panic moment, and I must have had the instinct to feather it as I tipped or I'd have gone right over. I still think front brakes are needed/safe in emergencies. Even if things didn't go too well that time. If a front didn't stop me going through, a rear skid never would have.

And I'm reading this whole thread carefully and taking all your points on board, by the way. Honest.

I still think I shall be crucified once it's published!

So what did the met say?

Dragging their heels at the moment.

British Cycling might have a view.

Yes, and that view is:

Bicycles should be fit for purpose, properly maintained and meet the legal requirements for their intended use.
Join British Cycling here!

The last time I went over the bars was when I first rode fixed around 7 years ago and nothing to do with front brake. Did the classic stop pedalling mistake to the point where rather than just jolt/lift the rear wheel it completely threw me over the bars. Still not really sure how this can happen but it does, and only once!

Did a similar thing myself, lost so much skin, I looked like something out of hellraiser. Could'nt for the life of me, explain what had happened, to Mrs Smallfurry.

Went clean over the bars of the 29er a few days ago, brand new candy's did'nt unclip, and me and the bike did a cool sumersault. Did'nt exactly 'land it' though :(

I grabbed a big handful of front brake just as I got to the lights at a crossroads near E&C a couple of years back. It had just gone red as I got near and I decided I needed to not be going across, but I tipped up forwards and went right through the junction on my front wheel.

uhm. this is a different debate. you were going to run the red light, but decided not to at the last moment.

Some bullshit about brakes and hipsters or something in the Aussie press today.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/milliondollar-fines-to-put-the-brakes-on-bikes-20100814-1248l.html

Dragging their heels at the moment.

Typical Police PR. Takes me back to working at a newspaper.