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Saying this I also believe it is a 100% personal decision, people should ride with whatever they feel most comfortable with whether its one, two or no brakes.
And if I decide that I drive quite safely at 100mph in town, you'd be happy with that too?
Or if I decide that the BAC limit is wrong for me and I can happily handle 12 pints before driving my cement mixer home that's cool.
"Oh but you're less likely to kill someone on a bike" isn't a counter argument. My tax pays for your A&E treatment when you end up face first into the back of a cab.
nb: I'm really just posting here for arguments sake. This has been going for the last 3 years. It's the fixie skidder only version of h_lm_ts and rlj.
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My "daily mail" reactive response is that riding brakeless is not a clever thing to do. However if you consider how people risk manage then it is probably the case that brakeless riders will not tend to cycle as fast but by goin more slowly they have more observation time, greater braking time etc.
I am willing to accept that line of argument, though given the fact that chains can and do fail I personally would like the backup of another braking system.
You are assuming people are managing the risk/even really thinking about it. Have they really looked at and analysed likelihood for chain failure, how they would deal with it etc,. or have they just gone with the 'it will probably never happen' approach.
Is that managing risk or just ignoring it. I suppose the ones managing it are the ones that are riding more slowly.
Having to ride more slowly doesn't compute with me :-) -
And if I decide that I drive quite safely at 100mph in town, you'd be happy with that too?
Or if I decide that the BAC limit is wrong for me and I can happily handle 12 pints before driving my cement mixer home that's cool.
"Oh but you're less likely to kill someone on a bike" isn't a counter argument. My tax pays for your A&E treatment when you end up face first into the back of a cab.
That wouldnt have been my counter argument, in fact I dont have a argument as such, was just stating that people should ride however they feel most comfortable and safest.
Dosnt really have anything to do with driving though does it, and I pay my own tax too so maybe I'll pay for my own A&E treatment.Also I need to post three times before I can post my classified ad :-)
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That wouldnt have been my counter argument, in fact I dont have a argument as such, was just stating that people should ride however they feel most comfortable and safest.
Dosnt really have anything to do with driving though does it, and I pay my own tax too so maybe I'll pay for my own A&E treatment.Also I need to post three times before I can post my classified ad :-)
What about how other people feel? They are using the roads too.
It's not about driving, it's about people deciding they know what's best for safety.
Oh and you better not fuck your classified listing up because I get very delete-happy when people try to break out of the nursery before reading the rules, without prefixing and other annoying shit.
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Maybe its my ignorance but surely if someone is at their most comfortable on their bike and feel as safe as they can be then they are a safer road user all round, for themsleves and others around them?
Maybe Im wrong, enlighten me?
Dont worry I will be sure to read the rules and post correctly. -
[/thread]
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Kerley
I agree
Going slowly seems shit to me, hence why I fixed my brake the moment I got home.
I am just trying to add a bit of perspective outside of the knee jerk reaction given by so many.
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you know what gets me is the holier than thou attitude, of both sides of this argument. So you don't ride brakeless, so you do ride brakeless, who fucking cares as long as you control your bike and aren't endangering anyone else. Get the fuck over yourselves!
Seriously.No really SERIOUSLY!!!!
Ride your bikes enjoy them and stop thinking riding one way or another makes you a better rider than the other. Learn as much as you can about your own level of bike handling and work within that.
Tired of the incessant infighting, as stated previously ride your bike, control it, and don't endanger anyone, yourself included, if you do, be ready to accept the consequences, and take responsibility for your action or inaction...
I'll bump this up cause it's pretty much summed everything up and should end the endless discussion.
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I'll bump this up cause it's pretty much summed everything up and should end the endless discussion.
No, because the same points have been made already and will continue to be made.. ad fucking nauseum.. that's how this works. Just like rlj and just like fucking h_lm_t debates.
Brakes rock.
I ride safer brakeless.
Oooh.. lookie on it goes..
Which is why I prefer pie.
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I'll bump this up cause it's pretty much summed everything up and should end the endless discussion.
I don't buy this though:
"*if you do [endanger anyone], be ready to accept the consequences, and take responsibility for your action or inaction..."
*I don't think it's enough to accept the consequences and take responsibility, after something terrible may have happened. The way it's worded implies that only the rider is affected in the end.
I do believe that many people are safe enough with careful riding and skid-stopping alone, but I also believe that too many inexperienced copycats will continue to emerge. -
Is that an apple crumble pie?
shirley is Rhubarb crumble pie
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this is the crux of the matter really isnt it?
its akin to drivers saying that most people can handle a car no problem after two pints, its just a few fools who cant, as justification for keeping a high alcohol blood limit.
yes some people might be able to control / skid stop / ride sensible etc (yawn) with no brakes, but inevitably as a result of the lack of a safety feature that was invented for the protection of the rider and others, people will be injured.
if brakeless riders were only a danger to themselves then i'd happily let them smash their heads into the pavement. the problem is that sensible cyclists, pedestrians, and motorists have to share the crowded urban traffic environment with them.
i'm sure this has been said before in this thread, i just cant be bothered reading back through it, and this will be the last contribution i make, its childishly ridiculous that people even defend the practice. if the cops do crack down on brakeless riding in the city, i wont shed any tears.
i don't think that drunk driving and brakeless riding are on a par. and if making this comparison is going to be the agenda of the article that is potentially going to be published then i hope it will contain facts and figures to back it up.
people ride recklessly on all sorts of bikes, some people who have contributed to the anti brakeless sentiment i know have ridden drunk. however tedious and childish it sounds to you someone trying to justify something you consider to be reckless is, unless there is evidence and statistics, [or law] to support your view and say that i am more likely to injure myself, or in particular others when riding a brakeless bike rather than sanctimonious and hypocritical opinion, i will continue to do so.
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About
The Ultimate Brakeless/Front/Rear/How many brakes? thread
Posted by
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a756406606
on why adventure sports involve so many people and are increasing in popularity.
http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=20013074546
on travelling and risk taking
http://www.frankfuredi.com/pdf/fearessay-20070404.pdf
eminent writing from the U.K expert, contactable at University of Canterbury
It seems a feature of modernity that people want to take more personal risk.
Happy reading