For Sale: 1959 Jensen, Classic Randonneur/Cyclotouriste

Wow! What a lot of debate!
@Bonk, Yes, it was indedd sold on gumtree. That was a sad little episode with the 'buyer' pissing about and not really having the wherewithall to fulfill his dreams, by which time the seconder had bought a Jack Taylor instead (I offered to swop him but he's paid £2,200 for the Jack).
@fred, your reasoning about used bike prices is correct. Knock off 50% of retail as soon as it's bee out. However, have you ever looked at the classic market properly? The classic car market is more widely known, but is similar. A new Mazda MX5 is... i dunno.. £15 k or so? Knock off your £50%, to £7.500. Now go find a total bodyshell-bare-metal rebuilt MGA roadster from 1959. Add lots of NOS rare bits to it, give it an unusual but highly sought-after spec (from new). Where are we now? £30,000?

Your similar, but less pristine, bikes with similar parts might be worth more than you think Fred! Im quite open about the fact that I collected together all the kit over a period, and raided my stash, for this bike. The paint cost £250. It was then alighment-checked, faced, reamed and threaded properly in jigs. (photos on www.flickr.com/photos/andy_and_mariana). 6 hours to cut/file/polish/drill/mount the mudguards alone, it all adds up to a lot of labour. I built the bike in our shop, and we reckoned it would have cost a customer £800 labour! It probably stands me a small profit, or about £1 an hour labour charge if you look at it that way! The couple of hundred miles riding has saved the next guy a bit of tweaking and refinement, too, now it's all down and tight.

If this bike was an identical-spec Rene Herse or Alex Singer Cyclotouriste bike, it would be £7-8,000 and would go to Japan, no question. I regularly sell 'secondhand' bikes and frames, the last being a similar age F.W.Evans tourer F&F for £75, so I do have my feel planted!

Thanks for saying that I'm exemplifying the forum rules - i hope so, and of course there will be Fifty Quid to the forum if it sells on here. Im trying to avoid fleabay, but might have to go there soon.
Cheers folks.

go on then fred, show us what you've got. how much it cost you in terms of BOTH time and money.
i mean, see how it works out when you want to sell a bike of your own.
time = money, so the cost of the actual hardware =/= the final sale price.
if you calculate it by hourly rate on the hours the guy spent on sourcing the parts, if the bike is exactly what someone wants without spending the time then i'd say you might well be getting a great bargain. also, the fact that someone's "in the know" where to source the stuff + knows how to build it with the right tools = probably the most valuable asset there is and thus warrants a higher hourly rate.

fair enough if you think you can do it for cheaper but leave the seller be, he priced it at that for a reason. and if no one buys it he'll make the necessary adjustments himself.

Borntoolate, the more expensive the item you're selling, the longer it may take for it to be sold.

give it time, there will be a person who will appreciate the bike as it is.

what's the top tube length?

i personally think it is worth every penny

This photo isnt my bike. It's my dream bike, £20,000 worth of classic Alex Singer. Can you spot the other 19 bikes-worth?
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/chromsing.jpg

Not justifying its price - twenty grand is just insane! But.....

i'm of the same belief as fred.

it like restoring cars though, if spent on the right bike ie hetchins, you will get your money back. however on some you don't.

This photo isnt my bike. It's my dream bike, £20,000 worth of classic Alex Singer. Can you spot the other 19 bikes-worth?
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/chromsing.jpg

Not justifying its price - twenty grand is just insane! But.....

I'd love to have an Alex Singer bicycle, my favourite part is his signature headtube as well as the stem;

@dogsballs. My car comparison wasnt saying youd spent £30k restoring the MG, that would cot al ot more. Youd spend that to buy one ready done. Like the Jensen.
Hetchins? apart from the label and the ineffective curly stays, its a nice 531 road bike. Most were built by Bob Jacksons anyway. Of course you and Fred are entitled to your opinions. Im not forcing you to buy the bike. Im offering it, to forum first, public later, take it or leave it, simple as that.

@edscoble. Wowee! the classic French randonneur and cyclotouriste bikes have now caught on in a big way in the US and Japan (once again, I'd recommend any bike nut to subscribe to Bicycle Quarterly at www.vintagebicyclepress.com). New builders have sprung up in their dozens, and parts are being replicated (or recommissioned in the case of TA cranks). As ever, the British market is conservative and slow to change. The resurgence in interest in classic steel road bikes may help to kickstart the neo-classic craze which is sweeping the rest of the world.

Hah, I'm already subscribed to Bicycle Quarterly for a while now, love that magazine.

You're quite right on cyclotouriste/randonnee bicycle being caught in a big way, Velo Orange and Electra are making TA-style component nowadays, check this out;

Electra Ticino components - well reviewed and lovely. they do Mavic-replica rims too.

Now when i sell this bike, I will have to be highly disciplined to put the money where its supposed to to, to help my family, and NOT on an Electra Ticino 20D!

Hah! what's the top tube length on that again?

Ed, I think it's square, but I'll add it to the specs when i get near the bike again. It's in York and I'm not.

BTL
Advertise this in the US and Japan.

£2,200! Jeebus. I passed up on a decently equipped Jack Taylor from SimonC for peanuts! Doh.

I missed out on a fillet brazed Jack Taylor light randonnee frame a fiver shy of £200, doh.

Id have given you double back on it if it was my size!

If i ever find a Taylor touring tandem that Mariana and I can fit, we will both be very happy bunnies!

I've never thought of factoring in my time in a private sale, I'm a little suprised others do this. If a bike is setup perfectly, then that certainly goes a long way (personally, I find the wheel builds on old bikes lacking in the main).

Overall I'm pretty frugal/cheap and lament the idea that these kind of usable, everyday bikes are getting "trendy" and becoming fodder for conspicuous consumption (Alex Singer's may be nice and all, but even if I had the money sitting around, I wouldn't be buying one for their boutique prices), when in my opinion they should 9 out of 10 bikes in the LBS.

Regardless of our different ideas on the matter, I still wish you well with the sale.

@Fred Personally i find the wheel builds on NEW bikes lacking in the main! Well, mas-produced ones anyway. Maybe that was the flaw in oyur 1st argument, about depreciation. Thinking again, would a Bob Jackson depreciate at that rate? A Bruce gordon? Or even a Brompton, for which you can get almost new price on a 3 year old commuter bike!
Anyway, I do agree with your lament at fashion driving up prices. You and I are lucky enough to have accumulated bikes while we could, and with an insider knowledge of parts etc.
I believe in accesibility of bikes, and thats why I founded BikeRescue.
However, My daughter needs setting up for uni next year, and Im not daft or rich enough to give my own machines away at rock-bottom prices. If someone wants to do it on the cheap, there are things like my £75 Evans to play with, and I wish them well.

P.S. I'd love to see these machines of yours some time, as an appreciative enthusiast, not a critic.

Hetchins? apart from the label and the ineffective curly stays, its a nice 531 road bike. Most were built by Bob Jacksons anyway.

Mine most definitely wasn't as it says Tottenham on the badge, way before the Bob Jackson buy out. In fact I find that staetment ridiculous as I believe Bob Jackson bought them out in 1984, Hetchins had been a successful bike builder since the 30s.

Apart from the curly stays, which are stunningly graceful, there's the lug work which to be fair makes the Jensen look plain.

Just saying...

lugwork - http://www.hetchins.org/lugs.htm

this is a beautiful bike no doubt and i think the seller has his pitch and responses almost bang on.

the only thing i'd quibble with slightly is the factoring in of labour time into the price (or at least raising it in justifying why the price isn't even higher).

how many times have we heard people being shot down in flames on here for asking for inflated prices on conversions because they'd factored a bit of build time into their price. the long established rule here has been that complete builds are actually worth less than the sum of their component parts. except, it seems, when they're above some arbitrary watermark of beauty or quality.

i know it's in a different league in terms of the quality and heritage to many of the builds called "overpriced" on here... but i can't help feeling that we should be consistant. or are the rules different at different ends of the market place? i don't know. it would be a real shame if it were parted out because it's stunning.

best of luck with the sale. if i was loaded i'd snap it up.

Borntoolate,what size Jack Taylor Tandem are you after as I may sell ours.
Double Gents,probably 23/21 but I will have to check.Used it loads when the kids where younger but now they have bikes of their own it doesn't get used.
Think I have the Lefol mudguards on my Leach Marathon Randonneur,but happy to put them back on.
PS lovely Jensen by the way,They can be done for much less money,but the time spent getting up Early to beat Hilary to the Cycle jumbles,geting parts re-chromed and getting frames to and from the re-finishers is staggering.I think it is a bargain and good luck with the sale.

@Malaysian, Maybe a closer study of Hetchins history, and the building arrangements will reveal that it is not only post-buyout frames which were built in Yorkshire, but more like the buyout happened because of the close working relationship which already existed.
I done personally find hte curly stays beautiful, to my eyes they jar almost as badly as a Flying Gate. Thats why we all collect different things. I didnt insult your bike, so there was no need to insult mine.
The jEnsen isnt going to be stripped. If you read abouyt randonneur bikes and their genre, you will see that the value of the bike was in its being a complete integrated unit, rather than the frame and bits from your shed, that most English bikes were. Jack Taylor's excepted of course, hence the growing interest in them today.

See I find it fascinating that in a time when builders were prohibited from branding their competition bikes Hetchins designed a the curly stays and lugs so people could identify the riders of their bikes. flying gates are pretty rank in comparison.

well fair enough - as you see in my original post I describe your jensen as pristine - which it is, and a fantastic colour. Good luck with the sale.

Just a question - was it the frames badged as Southend that were the first Bob Jackson were involoved with?