Police fining cyclists

is this a red light thread? is it worth reading it all?

"The campaign will see police officers enforcing advanced stop lines rules for motor vehicle users" - they are fair! :)

Contact CycleProblemsCP4@cityoflondon.police.uk for more on safer cycling.

I can't believe some of you. Running reds and then complaining about getting caught. If you wanna break the law be prepared to deal with the possibility of getting caught and the subsequent fines.

You can't use "its not fair because they don't prosecutre cars and buses for blah blah blah" as an excuse. If we all (all road users that is) did that then the roads would be far more anarchic than now.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not telling you not to jump reds, how you ride is up to you. Just be aware that when you get caught you'll more than likely be fined. If its a risk you're prepared to take then fine go for it (within the bounds of safety of course).

tallsam I can't believe some of you. Running reds and then complaining about getting caught. If you wanna break the law be prepared to deal with the possibility of getting caught and the subsequent fines.

You can't use "its not fair because they don't prosecutre cars and buses for blah blah blah" as an excuse. If we all (all road users that is) did that then the roads would be far more anarchic than now.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not telling you not to jump reds, how you ride is up to you. Just be aware that when you get caught you'll more than likely be fined. If its a risk you're prepared to take then fine go for it (within the bounds of safety of course).

With a response like that I bet you ride a black Marin hybrid?

tallsam I can't believe some of you. Running reds and then complaining about getting caught. If you wanna break the law be prepared to deal with the possibility of getting caught and the subsequent fines.

You can't use "its not fair because they don't prosecutre cars and buses for blah blah blah" as an excuse. If we all (all road users that is) did that then the roads would be far more anarchic than now.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not telling you not to jump reds, how you ride is up to you. Just be aware that when you get caught you'll more than likely be fined. If its a risk you're prepared to take then fine go for it (within the bounds of safety of course).

dude, if you have read all the posts properly, no one actually complained about getting caught. i for one didn't since i got caught yesterday. the whole discussion is mainly to warn other riders to be careful out there not to break the law AND the rants are actually on the subject of the attitude of the coppers where applicable. the one who booked me was a decent fella i didn't say anything bad about him either. don't get self-righteous too quickly before reading carefully whats been written alright?

Has anyone noticed the Smith and Wesson bikes the westminster cops ride? Maybe they got em free with guns.

edmundane [quote]tallsam I can't believe some of you. Running reds and then complaining about getting caught. If you wanna break the law be prepared to deal with the possibility of getting caught and the subsequent fines.

You can't use "its not fair because they don't prosecutre cars and buses for blah blah blah" as an excuse. If we all (all road users that is) did that then the roads would be far more anarchic than now.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not telling you not to jump reds, how you ride is up to you. Just be aware that when you get caught you'll more than likely be fined. If its a risk you're prepared to take then fine go for it (within the bounds of safety of course).

dude, if you have read all the posts properly, no one actually complained about getting caught. i for one didn't since i got caught yesterday. the whole discussion is mainly to warn other riders to be careful out there not to break the law AND the rants are actually on the subject of the attitude of the coppers where applicable. the one who booked me was a decent fella i didn't say anything bad about him either. don't get self-righteous too quickly before reading carefully whats been written alright?[/quote]

The rants are mostly on the subject of the attitude of the coppers.

I was mainly referring to posts like this:

when they start stopping cars and motorcycles going in the cycling box
taxis doing dangerous u turns and wiping me out
dealing with fuckwits in 4x4's on wallyphones

then I'll stop running reds

Often safer to just go for it

and this is just a really cuntish thing to say/do:

Also take his number down (in silver on his shoulders) and make an annomymous complaint (over your pint) that you saw this guy assulting someone, groping some young girl etc etc near where he nabbed you at that time and that you're too afraid to come forward. If they get three of thesse complaints (forgotten the complaint code) then they get it in the ass in a big way. Ruin his day and hopefuly his career and maybe... just maybe... his life

I mean they're only doing there bloody job.

you even do a bit of cop bashing yourself edmundane in this very thread. I mean its all well and good saying the guy who questioned you was a bit of a prick but lets not take things too far. We all have bad days at work.

I'm hardly what you'd call the Police's biggest fan either but I'll take each one on how he treats me not make my mind up before he even opens his/her mouth.

well fair enough tallsam.

i dont agree with that last bit either.

the one who picked on me i've seen him round brixton being unnecessarily prickish to everyone. even if he's had many bad days at work (shouldn't be an excuse, to be honest) as a copper he should reconsider his attitude he's not doing his job the way he should. and being unnecessarily angry with everyone just makes his (and everyone else's) day worse.

I view it as road roulette. 99% of the time you get away with it. Now and again you get caught.

Normally when there is a gaggle of plod it is a group of newbies (called probationers) being taught the delicate art of stitching up the public for £30 a throw.

I would never condone the use of false details, but I have heard it said that a recent letter with an "alternative" address is sufficient proof of residence.

Or so I am told.

ahem.

Toodle pip.

markrjohnson I view it as road roulette. 99% of the time you get away with it. Now and again you get caught.

Normally when there is a gaggle of plod it is a group of newbies (called probationers) being taught the delicate art of stitching up the public for £30 a throw.

I would never condone the use of false details, but I have heard it said that a recent letter with an "alternative" address is sufficient proof of residence.

Or so I am told.

ahem.

Toodle pip.

Letter to me

Buckenham palace
SW1 1AA

How that gammy arm by the way mark?

Unfortunately in the case of a fixed penalty notice the officer is judge and jury, so to have "a bad day at the office" isn't really on. Yes, running a red is against the law and perhaps it would be wise to take it on the chin, however it is the officers choice to apply the law with discretion, so the "just doing his job" line is bullsh1t, more like just doing his job badly.
I also agree that to point at cases where other road users avoid punishment for minor misdemeanors is petty and no defense. I just wish the police acted in a way that demonstrated an understanding of the laws they are applying and thought about when the principal of the law is applicable.

well that's what I thought after a cso stole 30 quid from me for riding on a quiet pavement at 3 mph for about 5 meters.

Back last summer whilst riding home i noticed two bicycle cops up ahead of me riding the same direction. Hadn't really noticed them on the road round my part of town so i was watching them quite closely. they crossed a major junction ahead of me at a fair speed and both promptly mounted the pavement via the crossing area for pedestrians. They then road off up the pavement in front of the local shops to the local ' police shop' ( we don't warrant a police station round my way anymore), at that point I thought wouldn't it be nice if i had my video camera in my hand and had caught all that on it!!! I wonder if you could make a citizens arrest and issue two fixed penalty notices to them?

police are allowed to ride on the pavements

I was mainly referring to posts like this:

[quote]when they start stopping cars and motorcycles going in the cycling box
taxis doing dangerous u turns and wiping me out
dealing with fuckwits in 4x4's on wallyphones

then I'll stop running reds

Often safer to just go for it

and this is just a really cuntish thing to say/do:

[/quote]

I still stand by that comment. Safer to not be stuck in with all the mash at the front of the queue for the lights.

vegansdontneedgears police are allowed to ride on the pavements

yep by law cops are allowed to break the law in order to cap someone who's committed an offense... they must be hunting down some invisible criminal who decided the most dangerous place is the safest.

They weren't chasing anyone, just pedalling along enjoying the day. I should have gone round the back of the police shop and locked up their bikes with my Abus.

....

I'm not averse to skipping through the odd red light - but I am bloody careful to look out for rozzers on the way. They are mostly in flouro jackets - so if you miss them, you can hardly say you were fully aware that it was safe to run through.

Does mean I occasionally screech to a stop for a fatbloke from the council though.

villa-ru I'm not averse to skipping through the odd red light - but I am bloody careful to look out for rozzers on the way. They are mostly in flouro jackets - so if you miss them, you can hardly say you were fully aware that it was safe to run through.

Does mean I occasionally screech to a stop for a fatbloke from the council though.

Very good point, villa-ru.

villa-ru

Does mean I occasionally screech to a stop for a fatbloke from the council though.

that's self-preservation, don't wanna hit him with yr arrospok, will fold in two.

I did get pulled up by a van-full of coppers in Regents Park, on the main path through the middle. They said didn't I know it was no cycling.

I'd just come in, cycling over the big white 'CYCLING OK' sign painted on the ground, so told them that.

They said didn't I see the new small unlit sign hidden in the hedge?

I said no.

They said fair enough, it's not very clear.

All very polite.

(just to balance things up, like)

pj i think there's an inherent belief amongst police officers that the job confers responsibility and rightfulness and thus there is no further need for exacting standards of behaviour or restraint. this is specious and untrue. i would completely agree with the 'they're just doing their job' school of public order, if there was an awareness of the human failings and the predominantly masculine assertiveness that accompanies this 'just doing they're job'-ness. there is also a met-wide tendency for an institutionalised us vs them culture, and a reactionary approach to dealing with the general public that is, at best, antipathetic, and at worse, provocative. at a very base level this value system leads to the public being treated like ignorant mongs, promises being made and not kept, and and the emphasis for proving innocence or establishing a sense of right pre-empting any help bein given. on a more serious level, it leads to abject, catastrophic institutional failure, namely in the case of stephen lawrence, james ashley, harry stanley and jean charles de menezes, and more shamefully even than that initial failing, a complete abrogation of responsibility, and a failure to stand up and say - no, we fucked up, i resign, a man fucking died - i can't live with myself. but if the Chief Constable, Ian Blair, or Cressida Dickcan't accept that sanctioned murder, whatever the circumstances, requires responsibility from the person in charge, even if there are a list of 12 systematic failures that to the death of one man, then the odds on the there being a more responsible form of policing on the streets, at the point of contact, seem somewhat remote. I'd consider killing myself if i was Ian Blair, i wouldn't be able to live.

in many ways i am not disputing the good things and the role that the police fulfil within society. my faith in humanity at large is not sufficient for me to contemplate living in a world without them. i have met a few police officers who are clearly driven by a moral and ethical framework over and above the need to wear uniform, or the love of 'fighting crime and using a siren' and believe in their capacity to create a better world; these people are phenomenal. However, i have grave doubts over many of the others that operate. i guess at the end fo the day, the police are like so many of the things we love to hate, supermarkets, property investment, 4x4s, merely a reflection of our own totally warped value system and desires, a society that measures affluence on the size of your plasma TV, and not on the quality of the air that we breathe, or the schools our children attend, or the hospitals we die in. the police force upholds the interests of the few, and not the many, not the dispossessed, but the empowered, the already enfranchised.it's fucking depressing.

Right, sonny - you're nicked. I don't like your attitude, or your language.

pj ... warped value system and desires, a society that measures affluence on the size of your plasma TV, and not on the quality of the air that we breathe, or the schools our children attend, or the hospitals we die in...

On a side note I find this a interesting point. Nicolas Sarkozy is proposing that a new way to measure a countries growth not just based on the GDP is devloped. I like that idea, I think we (the uk) would come much lower down the list of countries if a this was the case.

In the past I have had a series of distasteful encounters with the police - but none, I hasten to add, whilst cycling.

I have an old school friend who became a copper, and on a stag do he recounted some of the things they get up to - "we got him in the back of the van, and just all piled in.." sort of story. My opinion of the police was low anyway, but some of the things he was saying made me feel sick.

Being given a uniform, and powers over the rest of society, seems to warp the human mind.

That said, I am sympathetic to what TallSam is saying. There seems to be quite a bit of "I was riding along, listening to my iPod, along the pavement, through a red light and a Pig stopped me! Who'd have thunk it!" on this thread.

i think thats probably the only "good' thing that sarko has or will do given the man said he wanted to do for france what thatcher did for britian.

TheBrick(Tommy) [quote]pj ... warped value system and desires, a society that measures affluence on the size of your plasma TV, and not on the quality of the air that we breathe, or the schools our children attend, or the hospitals we die in...

On a side note I find this a interesting point. Nicolas Sarkozy is proposing that a new way to measure a countries growth not just based on the GDP is devloped. I like that idea, I think we (the uk) would come much lower down the list of countries if a this was the case.[/quote]