Bike fit / correct riding position

This is a bugbear of mine. Fitters always say ‘flat or slightly down’ which presumably means the back is angled up, which means the bit you’re actually sitting on is 5-10 degrees downward slope. How can you not slide forward onto the flat bit or at least increase the load on your hands/shoulders/wrists?

Having said that, I rode for years with the nose slightly ‘up’ (I’d say the high points of the nose/rear of the saddle were ‘flat’ relative to each other) and thought that was the happiest I could be; every time I lowered the nose I felt like I was sliding forward and went back to the old setting after an hour. Now though, I’ve gone ‘nose-flat’ after persisting for a week of feeling weird and have to accept that it feels better. Maybe my pelvis/core got used to the position and now it seems right. Also seems to have improved hip mobility and lower back ache.

Fitters always say ‘flat or slightly down’

I mean, they generally don't. That's what "internet bike fitters" say and simply as a means of a starting point.

Have your bibs worn away? Saddle collapsed at all on one side/padding compressed due to riding more?

Has it coincided with the increase in wetter weather? Is it the same sore, which isn’t healing or are you getting multiple sores?

More volume, less rest = more saddle sores.

I tend to abrade the right hand sit bone area much more than the left. I doubt many people will be perfectly symmetrical for their pedal stroke.

Have your bibs worn away? Saddle collapsed at all on one side/padding compressed due to riding more?

Yes! Checked my usual bibs and the stitching on the right side is worn away/come undone.

Has it coincided with the increase in wetter weather? Is it the same sore, which isn’t healing or are you getting multiple sores?

Possibly? Though I haven't ridden in proper wet weather yet. It is the same sore.

I've just had a week off the bike and it is almost healed. Went for a ride today with a newer pair of bibs and also straightened the saddle. Seems like those may have been the causes, fingers crossed.

I think this is also a factor. I've been irritating the same sore and not giving it a chance to heal.

Something that has been at the back of my mind; I had a bike fit earlier this year with a well known fitter. Explained I was wanting to buy a new bike.

The email I received after, with the bike fit data, doesn’t have the stack and reach measurements. Is this normal?

If you were fitted on your bike - it should say which year/model/size it was, you can then find a stack and reach online. If it was on the jig - there should be a stack and reach numbers in the report. But maybe there’s another way?

Any recommendations for bike fitting in london? Looking for a relatively in depth one as I got the aim of trying to get some longer rides/ tours in this year

I’m finally trying to get on top of a supinated right foot issue caused by ignoring a recurring ingrown toenail for far too long (stupid I know). It’s fine on bikes with wider Q factor as it allows me to toe out enough without hitting the frame/crank, but it has recently flared up in some medial knee pain on a new bike with the narrowest Q factor I’ve yet ridden and I’m now taking a break off riding for a few days.

I’m going to the gp soon to see what they can offer as it’s also mildly niggling day to day issue that has definitely overstretched some muscles and tightened others. I’ve been ignoring for far too long. Hopefully can getting into some proper physio to try and figure out how to walk and pedal normally again. Would Velophysio be the best place to try help along this journey? Both for a bike fit and for physio for this kinda thing?

Hey, can't be of much help with recommending a fit/physio but I do have a pair of Ultegra +4mm spd-sl pedals if you would like to try and see if they work for you? If they help I'm happy for you to keep them. Putting the Q factor out a few millimeters has helped me in the past with some knee pain (although has been more of a bandage than a cure). Even just to get back riding once you have recovered.
Shoot me a pm if you are interested, otherwise, I hope you're back riding soon and you get it figured out!

Ah that’s really kind of you, I’d definitely take you up on it as a test if I had road shoes but not to worry. I’ve bought one of those silly 20mm pedal extenders just to test the theory that it is the Q factor/stance width of that bike that caused the flare up, not intending to ride with it permanently. In a slightly less extreme way to bandage the issue I’ve bought a couple pedal washers to put on my fixie and bring the Q factor out a little more closer to what my gravel bike is (neither bike has caused me pain in the knee before, but I’m always aware of the slightly awkward way my right leg pedals on them)

Also going to test an angled cleat wedge and insole to try support my arch and stop my weight transfer going solely from the heel -> outer edge of foot -> to the middle of my toes. If anyone has any experience of a similar issue I’d love to hear how you tried to solve it - or if it’s even possible to convince your muscles/ligaments/brain to go ‘back to normal’

I have right foot problems caused by a bad medial malleolus break that was repaired with screws, never felt right after, got it reviewed 3 years later and yurned out 1 of the screws was not flush and rubbed a hole all the way through my posterior tibial tendon, stretching 6cm. This tendon basically holds your foot arch up from your calf and is one of the biggest contributors for people with feet problems radiating to the rest of the leg. I get paid in my knee from this problem myself.

I did a hospital based rehab program that lasted 8 weeks initially after the break and fix. I have subsequently had a few other physio programs for this problem. I have also broken my leg 4 times, so have done a fair bit of getting back on my feet. Definitely see your gp for diagnosis and request for physio. Most of the things they will advise you will be strengthening and stretching, especially single leg exercises, where it is important to do both legs. I can write some ones that I found best bang for your buck if you want, depends where it hurts and where is swollen.

On the bike I found insoles and really stiff shoes really useful. I balanced this with lateral positioning of spd cleats on my shoes. The softer the shoes the more you collapse into the weaker areas of your leg to compress power off as you push. I would be very careful with angled cleats as it may seem like you want to ease the muscle off where it feels weak but what you need is a solid level platform with support to give the rest of your leg its optimum biomechanic leverage. All on bike optimisation won't be as useful without off bike work.

Like all advice for things, change one thing at a time, give it a bit of time to evaluate. Don't over do it.

Oof that sounds rough man. I’d like to think I haven’t accrued any major damage like you’ve been though, all last year I cycled fine albeit perhaps not with my leg in the idyllic ‘straight pumping piston’ position on my one side. I just think dialling in the cleat position and fit on a new bike combined with perhaps trying to cycle too much too quickly after a pretty relaxed last couple months cycling wise has brought to light what damage can be done/it is doing gradually.

My thinking with the cleat angle thing is to try force my foot to pedal at the ideal flat angle instead of trying to shift the weight diagonally outward from the heel to the outside of the foot, obviously like you say this is risky and requires off bike work; if my muscles and tendons aren’t used to that manner of walking/cycling then it’s not going to help so I definitely need to work on stretching and strength training. So I’d definitely appreciate any knowing of the exercises you found most useful! Currently it’s the front/inside of my right knee, and some definite tension/overstretching in the back of my right from overstretching the outside of my right foot I’d presume

I posted this to n the cargo bike thread but probably should have put it here.

Bike fits for cargo bike, can any decent fitter do it or is there someone in London anyone could recommend?

I haven't ridden a bike since July when I had a pretty severe disc herniation leading to a week in hospital, its been a pretty tough 6 months but to cut a long story short things are looking a lot better and I'd like to get back cycling at some point but need to make sure my riding style isn't going to lead to more problems.

Stretching and foam rolling anywhere with tightness and also areas that feel more tense when doing strength exercises will help. Dynamic movements like lunges (forward and back, but also side to side helped me) and squats .

Stretching:
General stretching for legs calf, hamstrings, quads, glutes hips. Rolling these as well. Can get a tennis ball to roll the soles of your feet.

Strength for feet:
Practice isolating your foot arch and contracting it, you'll feel your calf contract, but try not to curl your toes. This takes time to get used to but you can do it anywhere. Bear in mind that this is hard work for your foot so try and do it when you can give your foot a rest after.
Knee to wall is really good. https://au.physitrack.com/home-exercise-video/ankle-mobility---knee-to-wall
Calf raises
If you get a resistance band you can do these https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GMpqghpqv-4 . You can just tie an open band together.

Leg strength:
I actually found bodyweight leg training the best for general wellbeing as it doesn't knacker you out as much and you can focus on stabilising muscles more.
Squats and walking lunges (1 set forward, 1 set backwards) to warm up, high reps 10-20 reps for 2 sets.
Shrimp squat progressions. You can start out just doing negatives (I.e. just the downward motion) this is for strength so 4-8 reps, 3 sets. This move will also get better and easier as your ankle mobility increases from the stretching exercises.
Nordic curls progression. https://www.bodybuildingmealplan.com/nordic-hamstring-curl/
These are really hard to start with so again negatives to start. They are harder depending how much upper body weight you have also. They're also good for core as well.
Glute bridges.

This is not prescriptive and only advice. So see what works for you and incorporate to regular life. Better to do a little consistently than too much irregularly

Good luck!

Have been getting foot pain in my right foot for quite some time 18months or so. To the point where Ive basically given up cycling.

I have spend close to a grand on bike fitting (forum recommended) and physio/podiatrist appointments with no joy and finally also had a NHS podiatrist appointment but they were not particularly fussed as I don't get the pain when walking and sent me on my way with my third set of insoles.

Essentially I get a lot of pressure just behind the ball of my foot, its fairly uncomfortable, not overly painful and goes as soon as I stop cycling. It constantly feels like I need to pull my feet backwards to get more over the cleat. Thats the best way I can describe it.

I have tried every cleat position possible - but even with the cleats all the way forward I still feel like my foot needs to come back to be over them more.

Anyone else experienced anything similar? I feel like it could be arch needing support and putting excess pressure on the foot but I have already been fitted with insoles by 2 people - 1 custom.

It is much worse when cycling uphill/putting down more force.

Which off the shelf insoles have you tried? Care to name (and potentially shame?) which fitters you've seen?

I thought the general rule was cleats as far back as possible? To the point that a lot of shoes don’t go far back enough.

Is your foot thing Morton’s Neuroma?

off the shelf, g8 performance pro series 2620 and some generic ones from the NHS.

custom - Sidas form fitted to my foot

Not going to name/shame the fitter as to be fair it was an general 3hr long fit with a focus on foot/shoe setup, rather than with one of their podiatrists as that was recommended first. I just dont have the cash or belief another appointment will solve it at this point.

Weirdly it did seem ok during the fit, but it was on a turbo where I dont think the same pressures apply compared to cycling irl? Cycling on the flat is generally okay but still there a tiny amount

Hmm, that's a tough one. I was basically asking because 2620s were like a magic potion for me. Not sure I understand your cleat placement but I agree with @Alf0nse that slammed back is where its at. Also, what shoes do you wear? Have you tried more than one pair? For example Lake's will allow your cleats to be really very far back, whereas shoes from someone like Specialized don't have much adjustability in my experience.

Sounds like maybe mortons neuroma.

@apc the tighter your shoes and the more your feet swell the more compression would be put on a mortons neuroma.

Wide shoes and something soft like a metatarsal pad may help.

I will look into it, I dont get any toe pain though, the feeling is within 2-3 mins of cycling.

cleats are slammed all the way back already

I just had a month off the bike and just bought some new cycling shoes half a size up as recommended by podiatrist as my normal shoes were a bit tight but now thinking I should have tried to get some wider shoes at the same time as I dont know if Fizik r5's are particularly wide.

Short ride yesterday cleats were all the way forward, today all the way back without much difference

@apc if it is Morton’s a pad on the insert at the ball of the fit can in a lot of cases fix the issue straight away.

I kept thinking I had a constantly breaking toe or metatarsal but it was Morton’s and the pad fixed it straight off.

I wouldn’t size up in a shoe to accommodate width personally, I’d just go for a wider shoe. Some brands bike or not favour narrower or wider fits as a house style almost. It’s why I avoid adidas even though my feet are exactly wide.