Cargo Bikes

Could be wrong, but from what I have read and what I have been told by Fully Charged today R&M are issuing full refunds to every owner next week. There was no option of having the issue rectified and the bike returned.

Well shit.

R&m have removed all mentions of the packster 70 from their website too

Makes sense given they've frozen production on it for now.

https://pedelec-elektro-fahrrad.de/news/rueckruf-und-sofortiger-fahrstopp-des-modells-packster-70/600241/

Backs this up.

I'd it's true, and it feels like it is, then you do wonder how the company could survive this. It's not just the money, it's blowing their brand apart.

it's blowing their brand apart

Money wise- I agree (though I suspect they would have some form of insurance) but if the recall/ refund happens as it is said to do (and I wait to see firm, written proof), this is pretty much the perfect response from a company.

I would be interested to know how many they have sold. I think Fully Charged alone have sold over 50. That is at least £300k of refunds from one dealer. I would think they have sold at least 10x as many?

I agree the response appears to be impressive. But then I also wonder if it is connected to the voluntary recall over the summer, and if so why this issue wasn't fully solved then.

From a bit of googling their annual turnover is probably over £100m, so I would think they have deep enough pockets and enough scale to absorb this.

Yeah, I can see that side. I wonder how people will see it in general.

They are selling a bike for £6-10k at a decent volume. You'd have expected them to get the development rights.

How many cars have Tesla recalled?

Cars always get recalled, not sure many lines get cancelled and everyone gets a full refund.

I'm more worried about how it will effect the shops than the brand - assuming R&M is refunding the cost of the bike to the shop, and the shop is refunding the customer for the retail sale - the shops are losing $4,500+ per bike in margin, and if you've sold more than a couple P70s that's going to hurt a lot!

Can they enforce the shop to chip into the refund?

We'll have to wait and see, but I don't imagine they plan to refund their dealers for more than the wholesale cost of each bike, whereas customers will be rightfully expecting full retail refunds.

Say Fully-Charged sold 50 P70, just Touring models stock with no upgrades or accessories, that's over $165k USD in refunds coming out of the shop's pocket; possibly all at once.

I think they must be making good the shops on lost margin. When I spoke to Fully Charged first thing they sounded worried about this as well, but they all sounded relaxed by mid afternoon. Or at least more relaxed than if their shop was going bust overnight.

They may have to for the PR. If dealers can't top it up then it'll look like they are taking the bike and leaving customers out of pocket.

Or are shops insured on this type of loss?

That would be nice, but it would be uncharacteristically generous of R&M from what I've observed over the last five years of working with them - they're not in the habit of fucking their dealers, but they don't often offer up much beyond exactly what is owed when they mess up.

Granted, it doesn't help them to let their dealers go under either so who knows - we've not seen anything on the scale before from R&M.

Or are shops insured on this type of loss?

That I don't know... I know shops are covered for thefts or damages, but it's always for the wholesale value of the bike, not retail.

Jesus - what a mess

Jesus - what a mess

For literally everyone involved.

This sounds like it could drag some shops down with it if they don't do something for the retailers. Sounds messy.

I was thinking earlier, on the basis of absolutely zero knowledge, despite this being the right thing to do could there maybe also be an insurance reason? In that, there'd be a clause more favourable financially for a complete recall/write-off than the logistic nightmare of repairs or retrofitting new subassemblies. Just a guess.

I'm glad they're taking responsibility, these are small family carriers. Safety should be #1. But the cynic in me says they can't be totally selfless. Happy to be put right, however.

@Vbulman do you have experience of the Load 75? If so, what did you think of it?