Gravel / Gravé / Gnarmac / Groad / ATB

^^ Lulz.

If you're more of a "jesus take the wheel" type person maybe you'd prefer less input and you can be chauffeur driven on your slack gravé bike around the Richmond Park "gravel" path.

I don't know if you mean this to sound incredibly snotty, but that's how it sounds.

I'm not a racer - I don't have the physique or to be honest the inclination. But I can happily spend all day in the saddle and put decent miles in, and my idea of fun is strapping a saddle bag and a frame bag on, picking a destination and then finding my way there and stopping wherever looks interesting and reachable by evening along the way.

My previous bike was a Fratello, which takes up to 28mm tyres but still has a more relaxed, audax/endurance oriented geometry. I did LEJOG on it and attempted LEL on it (I had to drop out as I had undiagnosed asthma that kicked in just outside Scotland). I rode that bike for years and loved riding it, but I wanted to get something with disc brakes and space for fatter tyres. After literally years of indecision, Condor released the through-axle version of the Bivio Gravel, which feels very similar in geometry to the Fratello but with all the additional things that I wanted. So I ordered one and gave them all the parts I'd been hoarding for my eventual build. I got it at the beginning of lockdown, and so far I've been loving it, and can't wait to take it out on a proper adventure.

I don't have the physique

waves

I don't know if you mean this to sound incredibly snotty, but that's how it sounds.

I did yes, but it was a light hearted dig into the void, not aimed at your good self.

Some people get on with that kind of geo and that's fine, others (myself included) can find it like driving a boat. There are guidelines such as bikes for rougher terrain having slower handling so they don't twitch every time you hit a rock but there's room for adjustment to how you prefer it.

PhilDAS is right in that a CX bike will generally be more similar to a road bike geo than a gravel bike because CX bikes are for racing and need quick handling, I generally agree with his opinion that they make more sense for mostly road-some off road bikes but they can lack some stuff like mounts for bottles, mudguards etc and the higher BB will make them feel less stable for cornering and descending. Also some do struggle to take tyres fatter than 33 or 35.

As an aside I quite like the look of the Bivio with thru-axels. My main complaint with Condor bikes is usually price.

But you're defining road bike as race bike, here. My Fratello was a road bike with endurance geometry. A Dawes Galaxy is a road bike with touring geometry. I wanted a road/gravel bike with endurance geometry - if I wanted racing geometry, maybe I'd have bought a CX bike.

Edit to add - the Fratello has 52mm of trail; the Bivio has 55mm of trail. Neither of those feels particularly slouchy, but they're not as aggressive as some bikes.

This is a fancy bike, look

I mean, that has no wheels, it's bloody useless on or off road. What are you thinkin' man?! ;0)

It's the next big thing

You lot are just trying to lull me into posting a pic of my high stack, multiple spacered, pointy uppy stem gravel bike that I happily bimble all day on, so you can stem slam pistol whip me. I'm not falling for that trick on here.....

Adjustable rake, mounts for snacks

PhilDAS is right...

Is he though.

...in that a CX bike will generally be more similar to a road bike geo than a gravel bike.

Citation needed

This is not a proper gravel bike: it hasn't got a 65 degree HT, 2.2* tyres and 55cm wide drops.

Citation needed

all size Large

Canyon Grail CF SLX - gravel

head tube angle = 72.5
seat tube angle = 73.5
stack = 688mm

Canyon Ultimate CF SLX - road

head tube angle = 73.3
seat tube angle = 73.8
stack = 592mm

Canyon Inflite CF SLX - cyclocross

head tube angle = 73.5
seat tube angle = 73.5
stack = 593mm

Deceptive with the front end looking like this

Still trying to find some of those bars without having the buy the frame they come attached on

Thanks. I hate it.

Very good exemple, as I had both an Inflite (previous gen) and an Ultimate at the same time for a little while, and rode both on the road and hardpack grus. The Ultimate was faster, more stable and just a better ride, even on gravel.

You have not mentioned trail, BB height, chainstay length,fork offset?

To be fair, the stack on the gravel included bar, which the alu version would be a fair comparison.

You have not mentioned trail, BB height, chainstay length,fork offset?

I could quote the whole geo chart for each but it doesn't fit the purpose. Yes the CX bike will have a higher BB than the road bike, and a longer wheel base and the gravel bike will have a lower BB than both. Those things are all to be expected but don't affect the feel of the ride as much as the angles and stack/reach. They don't provide the trail or fork offset.

True, the Grail AL7.0 Large stack = 605mm. Less extreme than the CF SLX but still a bigger difference than that between the Inflite and Ultimate

No front end should ever look like that

Those things are all to be expected but don't affect the feel of the ride as much as the angles and stack/reach.

I'm not convinced. If you make a tall bike* with your favourite bike as a the top half I bet you'd feel the difference, even though you would have kept the angles and S&R.

*yes, not the best exemple. X

But that would just take us back to the reach and stack measurement.

Then again cross bikes like Super X and Crux have slacker headtube angles than that Grail. And gravel bikes like the Condor Bivio are rather close to road bikes, with the stack too, 593 mm on a 58. Specialized Roubaix is a few cm taller. These have about 70 mm of bb drop too. Diverge also looks a bit like a road bike, though not quite. A confusing time to be alive.