Gravel / Gravé / Gnarmac / Groad / ATB

Stag nighter, got some two wheel drifts and a very hard 10 miles home this morning!

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Took me 4 bleeds to get it sorted. But once you've done it a couple of times it's not too time consuming at least.

My first set, I literally just filled them from a top cup and burped out the air.. only took 15 minutes per brake 😂

You animal.

They actually felt alright for a while!

If you are going to the effort of building a frame that’s dedicated to a bottom bracket mount gearbox you build the rear of the bike with chain tensioning capability. Right?

So I was wondering if you fellows can help me. I'm about to pull the trigger on a Vitus Energie

I intend to use it to commute - and for some hopefully off the beaten path rides on the weekend. I'm also open to other suggestions of bike if you have one.

It appears to represent excellent value for money - and I can see a few of you have them. Onto the question: sizing.

I previously had an XLS I never gelled with - some of it due to the fact I had to have the seat almost slammed. I bought that in a 54cm frame by their advice - for my height (175/6cm, inseam ~31.5").

So naturally - I'm apprehensive - it seems medium is definitely the best size for me according to the size chart provided for Vitus - but I wanted to see if anyone has real world experiences of this size/can offer advice.

by their advice - for my height

This is the problem. You can have very different proportions to someone else the same height. Ignore height recommendations for bike sizes.
Consider how high your saddle is from the bottom bracket (providing you’ll be using the same length cranks. Also how far the bars are from your saddle and how much lower than your saddle they are. Things like that. Real world measurements of how you fit on the bike and then see if the new frame can accommodate those without a tiny short stem or no seatpost on show etc.
Stack and reach are useful. Vertical and horizontal distance from the BB to the top of the headtube

Quick question and saddlebag id: Is that the Camper and if so, is it a dumb thing to even try to use without the Bagman support?

Also it's one of the nicest Dad-mobiles I've seen

If I were making the decision I'd look at other frames/bikes. The reach (386mm) on the smallest frame would be too long for you, not to mention the low stack height.

Thanks for the reply - really appreciate it.

Can I ask how you come to this conclusion - for reference; I went and took a ride on a Pinnacle Arkose today - 51cm (size M).

According to their size guide this has a stack of 590mm and a reach of 387mm and it felt ok. The seat seemed to be at an ok height (see setup).

I plotted some details in thebikelist bike fit and it popped out the numbers of 558mm stack and 365mm reach. This compares with an XS sized Ribble CGR AL.

Sorry for all the questions - just want to get the right bike.

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Bear in mind the Pinnacle is designed to be ridden with a shorter stem (70-90mm), compared to the other whom have a more traditional fit (90-120mm).

Hence why top tube is longer on Pinnacle.

Camper longflap!

I wouldn’t! - maybe without the lower bar but you defo want the top Qr section.

I think it’s probably just going to be a floppy mess without the Bagman though:

Thanks! Solves the whole sleeping mat problem

Aye. I didn’t even bother trying to roll mine small just let it hang out the sides!

Ed. is correct about the longer top tube/shorter stem combo trend on the Pinnacle.

Your numbers you listed are around what I was thinking for your height and inseam (arm length can be played around with a bit with stem length); at least 560mm stack / reach around 370mm+.
Going back to that Vitus, the stack height on that frame would be too low for you across the sizes.

@norton thanks so much for your help. Just trying to get my head around this.

With an ideal stack, theoretically of 560mm and reach of 370mm.

The Vitus: 570mm stack, 407mm reach + 80mm stem
The Pinnacle: 589.5mm stack, 387mm reach + 80mm stem

Does this mean theoretically the Pinaccle is 20mm shorter than the Vitus, and if we assume the ideal 370mm reach is with a 100mm stem, averages out to be about correct?

So assuming I should write the Vitus off for being incompatible, and trying to avoid the arkose for now (I wanted to get 1x on the front for simplicity). Does anyone have any other ideas? I really wanted to keep it under 1000 for the cycle to work scheme

Get the Vitus. I have it, it's a great bike, cheaper and lighter than anything comparable.
Yeah it's low (but it's listed as a cyclocross bike) but you can always add spacers or flip the stem. For me the low stack was the main selling point

Sonder Camino AL

Have a mooch around in here:
https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/142426/?offset=1150#comment14740513

Pretty common to use without a bagman I think, you might get a small amount of leg rub but nothing worse than that. The qr bit is great

The Vitus is more traditional/cyclocross despite having a short stem.

The Pinnacle is more adventure/endurance style (as in more upright and shorter).

I plotted some details in thebikelist bike fit and it popped out the numbers of 558mm stack and 365mm reach.

Fitting a bike type like this by averaging and some unknown formulas is as likely to be miles out as it is to be correct. I'd ignore this sort of result and just get a bike that feels good when you ride it o one close to what you've had before, since bar-stem and saddle adjustments will do the rest. The main thing is to get the saddle in the right place, get yourself feeling balanced on the bike as the rest can vary quite a bit and still not be 'wrong'.
Being into all this stuff I've entered my info into a few of these online fitting tables, never got anything back that's that close to what I ride through trial and error and learning - and I ride a few very different set ups in comfort.

I personally love having a capable all road rig which will have the drive system ripped to shreds the first time you try and hop a log. Absolutely daft.

Lol, how often are you hoping BB height logs on your drop bar bike?

Lots of this happening on the commuting that lets be honest, most of these bikes will be used for ?

But a higher than average curb will possibly rough up the lower end?

I just can't shake the feeling that it's a bad idea, but I'll grant that this tubeless thing also had me thinking at first.

@tcw for what it’s worth I’m the same height as you and went for a M Arkose. It’s a perfect size for me but sometimes I wonder if a small would fit too. I really do think the M is the correct size for me however, just maybe a cm or two shorter top tube (maybe, or maybe not)

A 53/54 traditional geo frame seems to fit me pretty well, for comparison purposes.