Weight / Fat loss

I will never never never go running.

I destroyed mine in one day. 2000W cruising along on the commute, I don't think so.

I spotted the corrected 8-10k figure with a better google search.
My point was that your sporting activity can require huge calorie intake.

A pretty well known way of adding calories (for bodybuilders anyway) is 1 gallon of full fat milk on top of your normal food each day, for approx. 2400 calories.
Being mildly lactose intolerant that makes me somewhat queazy just thinking about it.

I've also read about enhanced calorie burn in swimming due to higher thermal conductivity in water. With Olympic swimming pools being cooler (down to 22 degrees) the amount of calories required to maintain body temperature alone is considerably increased, particularly, if you are in the pool for many hours a day.

Isn't having an robust and efficient digestive system one of the most useful things to have as an endurance athlete?

That is GOMAD (gallon of milk a day). Anything I read about it was unclear as to benefits - some said it was a fad.

No, but I don't drink milk/ eat cheese as it fucks my insides. So something similar would help.

4m10s to drink 2L iced coffee.

I could probably beat that but there were no real challengers at the time.

Mmm... all the lack toes!

I agree with the thermal conductivity thing (people get hypothermic and die much quicker in cold water) but I don't know enough physics to dispute the idea about the calories. What I will suggest though is that at a high work rate, humans are producing a fuck load of heat, so exercising in water is 'maybe' more efficient since your body doesn't need to work so hard to cool down? Also, there's bouyancy in water, so you're moving but body weight is part suspended. So you're working to go forward but not support yourself, like say, running. Need a proper scientist to answer this. I hate swimming though, unless I'm chasing a can of beer down a river...

If I get straight out out of the pool after a 1h30 swim (feeling a bit chilly as the water temp is 26-28 deg C) and get changed straight away (in the relatively cool changing rooms) I'll sweat through my t-shirt in the 5 minutes after that. The body gets used to dumping excess heat in the water and can't adapt quickly enough when changing environments.

#csb

However there’s a great big load of water providing resistance in all directions(?), which running does not have.

Can you tell I was shit at science in school?

Hmm, soy choc milk or one of those non-dairy alts?

Does your 'no processed' rule include making your own recovery drink with sugars, proteins, salts from bulk powders/myprotein?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=15406169
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/637154/non-dairy-recovery-drink
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-nutrition/708912-dairy-free-no-whey-etc-recovery-drink-bcaas-enough-other-options.html

Yeah, but you're gliding through it. Wait, this is a different thing. We want to know if more calories are lost due to thermal conductivity of water, not just the activity.

quick google

https://outdoorswimmer.com/guides/cold-water-science-and-nutrition

"
Scientists took 11 male subjects and had them perform 45 minutes of exercise on a cycle ergometer machine, all the time submerged under water where the temperature was set at either 33 degrees Celsius or 20 degrees. Following 45 minutes of exercise test subjects were then given free access to a standard assortment of food where the caloric value of each food was known. Energy consumption was measured and the results revealed subjects in the cold temperature test consumed 41 per cent more calories than the neutral, control group.
"

Hmm, not sure about that. It just means that the colder group gobbled more food, who knows if they actually expended 41% more energy during the exercise.

But a typical pool is 26-28 deg C, not 20 deg C.

Hmm, more #magnets required I think.

The thermal conductivity of water is 0.591, the thermal conductivity of air is 0.024. So completely ignoring wind, convection, radiation, sweating and so on you lose ~30× more heat in water than air. Round that down a bit to account for sweat and the other factors and you're probably still burning multiple times more calories simply by standing in a cold pool compared to cold air (at the same temperature).

If you get too hot, you start burning calories again in order to pump blood and lose heat. In this case you burn more calories in air as the cooling is less efficient.

So, if you want to burn calories here's the summary: if you're ice fishing in Norway and there's a 0° pool and 0° air then jump in the pool. If you're in Majorca and it's 35° outside and you're a sweaty mess, stay out of the nice cool 25° pool. If you're in Abu Dhabi and you have a choice between a 50° pool or 50° air, then jump on in you big lobster. Basically aside from baths and saunas and whatnot it's the unpleasant option that burns the calories.

Proper link to the Outdoor Swimmer study is needed.
As described in the article it makes no sense as a "study".
They base their caloric expenditure on what the subjects ate after exercising? That makes no sense.

https://www.wired.com/2013/02/ff-cold-weight-loss/

Not the most scientific of articles but an interesting read nonetheless.

It makes sense that your body would need to work harder to maintain your core temperature if your body heat is being stripped at a faster rate. Increased heart rate, shivering, etc.

I feel this would have no practicalapplication to me at present though, too well insulated from the elements with winter fat....

Different stuff again though isn't it. This is using cold (be it water or air) to induce shivering whereas we're talking about people already exercising hard but happen to be in water. Since they're already exercising, are their bodies still having to burn 'more' calories to make up for the heat lost to water? I don't think so but have nothing to back this guess up, just the fact we produce loads of heat while exercising.

It seems obvious to me that if you're sedentary but forced to shiver due to cold you'll burn some amount more calories than if you were comfortable. How much more, maybe Chen will publish.

Increased BAT is why I walk around in winter in a shirt :)
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140204123619.htm

03/01 96.9 morning (it was 96.9 but I had a coffee and a shit and weighed again)
04/01 94.2 night (post-ride, pre-dinner)
05/01 94.5 why you getting heavier shitbrains?
08/01 93.8 morning (post coffee, post toilet destroying shit)
09/01 93.6 But I may have eaten a packet of Tim Tams to "get rid of them" and a cherry ripe... or two.
10/01 93.8
11/01 93.7 Doh. I'm going to put this down to eating a lot yesterday as I did two days gym back to back.
12/01 94.2
14/01 95.8
16/01 95.3 you said it was just 100g... pfft. It was a fun weekend but knocked my recent healty routine.
17/01 94.8 steak, salad, margarita and a cherry ripe for dinner, gym (fucking crushed it)
18/01 93.9
19/01 93.7 after colleague's leaving do, out on the piss
20/01 93.9 comedy gig tonight so more booze and associated bad food choices
23/01 92.8 1.1 off yesterday, almost certainly dehydration and nothing meaningful. fuck you, body
24/01 93.2 gym, no commute
25/01 94.4 gym, commute, work lunch could get interesting, BF% down 1% possible anom
29/01 93.6 100mi yesterday, still bit dehydrated, recovery focus on kebab and ice cream not fluid
30/01 93.4
31/01 93.2 down ~2%bf
01/02 92.3 into the 92s after two nights on turbo, no gym, will disappear with boozin next days
02/02 92.1 grump, thrown bag punched door before I'd even left flat. creates anger manglement thread
04/02 93.8 meh
05/02 93.5 meh
06/02 92.2 ooh
07/02 91.7 yay #dehydratedmuch
08/02 91.3 I'm comin' for ya 90.x's
09/02 91.7 okay... maybe not...
3 day meltdown
12/02 92.9 after a ~500g shit
13/02 93.6 after going to but not partaking of an all you can eat ribs offer
14/02 92.2 after salad and pancakes, skipped turbo workout
15/02 91.7 eerily familiar territory.. post hard turbo session last night, dehydration likely
16/02 91.5 let's see how much of this disappears after tonight on the piss
17/02 89.x Drinking til puking did get me under 90kg but hasn't been great maintaining the training
19/02 92.3 I always expect to be lighter after a long ride but never am.
20/02 92.1 Up and down and up and down and up and down
21/02 90.8 Failed intervals, legs empty still, used extra 500cal in doing so though, glycogen shed
22/02 90.6 Interval success! It was the wristbands that done it. Gym was a bit weak this morning.

Ta for links will read, missus drinks gallons of the soy so maybe some flavoured variety. Probably wont touch powders.

Yeah, I'm not much use to you in this department - I love milk and used to smash carb and recovery powders. But with the clean eating stuff being on trend there must be people out there with decent alts.

Neeb on BikeRadar will be my new best friend

Some of you might find this interesting. It's more to do with nutrition, mind.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/low-carb-vs-low-fat-both-led-to-12lb-loss-after-a-year-regardless-of-genes/

I honestly think people overthink the macro shit way too much* for fat loss. Though a low carb AND a low calorie diet is pretty brutal, brain fog ahoy. I would not do that personally unless there's a good reason for it. But if it works for you... the best diet is one you can stick to :)

*protein matters, fruit and veg matters, carbs for hard exercise and after training matter, don't eat too much cheese/crisps, eats avocado/nuts/fatty fish obv.

And don't bulk with eating extra fat, you will get fat if you are me. Those chocolate brazils though... :)

Lost 5.5 lbs in 6 days. Ludicrous amount of exercise except one day. Salads with extra chicken/turkey each day. No breakfast, plenty of coffee and water. I am reasonably sure it’s not sustainable but it has got me close to my target weight. So, happy enough. Also, I had 4 pints and a Baileys coffee on Wednesday night to ease my aches so it’s all good - for now!!

Better mention the Apple Watch - this did give me a lot of incentive/encouragement to keep at it.

Have a great weekend all.

2/2/18 103 kg
9/2/18 102.1 kg and weight lifting started.
15/2/18 100.1kg
23/2/18 101.8kg 33.7% Fat Mass. New Nokia scales so hoping to be a blip due to greater accuracy...