EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

#wtfigo

Yes. Thanks Matt

Now I feel like a willy.

That seems to be it.

I know there's still the accusations that politicians have failed to listen to the people in the past and that failing to listen to the 'democratic will of the people' will cause the whole country to riot to death but they seem to have failed to take into account that the majority of the people seem to be utterly unreasonably half-wits.

no you see, the nation has been ruined by lefty liberals who molly coddle and baby precious little snowflakes who think everyone should be treated fairly when clearly everyone like us deserves extra special treatment.

but you can't call the people who think this racists or bigots because of course that would hurt their sensitive feelings so we have to molly coddle and baby the precious little snowflake... hang on a minute.

"stop fixating on identity politics!"

except of course if that identity happens to be white people.

Or men ;)

I see a lot of unreasonable dumbness on Facebook, but I think part of the problem is the sheer lack of education on politics, how to talk to others and how to adult and not throw a tantrum. I found out in my 30s (!) to be aware that humans are wired to be tribal, go into panic mode for any threat (which politicans exploit) and every discussion is seen as a fight by your brain.

Took me a while not to get too worked up and even then I avoid most online discussions as it's too hard to get anywhere. Even if you try. [Has our office brexiter softened his stance yet I wonder... ;)]

If we'd all know perhaps it would be less of a zero sum situation as I find it hard to imagine there are so many people that need to grow the fuck up.

The pure racist alt-right and the pure hard core lefties aren't 50% of the population.

Now I feel like a willy.

PM me.

It's only 300ish years ago that armies were still being marched up and down the UK to settle longstanding disputes over democracy, monarchy and religion-perhaps we're still bedding in...

Either way I don't see Farage as any kind of Oliver Cromwell and I'd be very surprised if BoJo has the confidence of the army so I suppose we'll be limited to violent scuffles in Facebook comments threads for the immediate future as the will of the people and treason are sensibly debated by reasonable, informed adults.

The real riots will begin when the cash machines run out of money and food is rationed, but I'd say that's not going to be until at least a few months after Article 50 is signed off so don't let that interfere with your Christmas shopping.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38156891

No guarantees from EU means May thinks it's OK to play hardball.

Politics eh... Tusk is right negotiations don't stay until article 50. So I can see where she is coming from, but it would be nice if everyone could chill out and say "we can't promise anything cos of article 50 but let's AIM for guarantees, ok?"

But maybe he can't say that because all EU states get a say. The joys...

I'm lost as to what May thinks her posturing might achieve.

The EU know our position, all her posturing is for the benefit of the right wing press and the brexiters in her own party.

Indeed

https://www.ft.com/content/36e5b0e9-baa4-30eb-adc9-dd2babcf2d80

Brexit lols:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-theresa-may-supreme-court-article-50-vote-defeat-unanimous-warning-a7445851.html

In fairness, read the first few words May said:

"The PM said it was "right" to give reassurance to both sets of citizens, adding: "But I think the reaction that we've seen shows why it was absolutely right for us not to do what the Labour Party wanted us to do, which was simply to give away the guarantee to rights of EU citizens here in the UK, because as we've seen that would've left UK citizens in Europe high and dry.""

I almost feel sorry for May, Cameron left her with a steaming turd attached to a ticking timebomb, this article 50 court case cluster he could have checked for example, it seems no checks were done at all. Though she could have not taken the job, and let Parliament call a new election etc. but perhaps she thought delays would be worse for the UK (that's probably true)

But then I remember what she stands for (no human rights, faith schools, anti immigrant, in her role has home office minister letting security companies get away with rape, murder etc in immigration detention centres) and then I think... nah, not feeling too sorry.

Her own naked ambition got her where she is. She deserves all she gets.

^^ this and this ^

To be fair, from a negotiation point of view it doesn't seem to be a good idea for the UK to concede on a point before negotiations even begin when the other side is refusing to grant the reciprocal rights.

Two sets of dogmatic beliefs aren't mutually exclusive I guess.

As John Galbraith said:

'The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.'

I guess, like all religious types, they just pick and choose which parts they need.

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

A lot of Tories are also active Christians. They have a shared set of values: belief in the superiority of the traditional family unit, resistance to change, a desire to return society to an imagined 1950s idyll of vicars on bicycles riding between village fetes past cricket matches etc. etc.

Both the church and the Tory party have fought to keep power in its traditional place - in the hands of the rich and the upper classes. Remember that historically the church was effectively a tool to keep the peasants in their place and encourage them to behave/not overthrow the gentry.

Also worth pointing out that the Church of England was started by Henry VII, a despotic tyrant. Just sayin'.

Ahem, typo alert, you missed a numeral out on your Henry.

vicars on bicycles come on, the Tories hate cyclists, even if they are vicars.

You can excuse pretty much anything with any holy book...

And a lot of Christians do not leave the churches that are condoning all this either, so I'm not sure this reputation of Christianity is all that it's cracked up to be. Could just be good marketing.

[my Protestant parents in fairness do the whole charity/voluntary work/not judging thing]

A lecture in a uni I know said that it's not so much religion but conservatism that drives things like anti-LGBT rights, anti-abortion access etc.

She didn't mention the power thing, but it wouldn't surprise me TBH. The old Greeks already mentioned that religion was very useful for the rulers.

It's most definitely a factor in politics in NI and in the past in ROI: The RCC had a lot of power which is now slowly waning, the DUP it still up there with it's right-wing USA Christianity.

As a social liberal person I guess I'll never get it, but I'm not that scared of changes.