Labour Leadership 2016

i think it's fair to make a distinction between the PLP and the membership. the vitriol coming from the right is coming from people in positions of authority. like owen smith calling corbyn a 'lunatic'. Far more damaging, petty and unhelpful than anything i've heard from the left.

Ultimately, I think the only way to stop the party splitting is for people - the PLP and the membership both - to get over their sense of grievance and stop abusing each other. And I don't see that happening.

Both sides are as bad as each other. The Corbynites treat Smith like he's IS or something. Why they aren't reserving their vitriol for the Tory government which is slowly fucking over our country I don't know. Yes he's the opposition in the leadership race but he's a fellow party member and that seems to get forgotten. A lot. Personally I think he should be commended for putting his head over the parapet and standing. It's shame more didn't.

I was disappointed by the attitudes and behaviour of both Corbyn and Smith at this week's hustings.

remind me again why owen smith is worthy of any commendations?

Why they aren't reserving their vitriol for the Tory government which is slowly fucking over our country I don't know.

if the PLP and the NEC spent as much time opposing this government as they did sifting through member's tweets and facebook posts, maybe we'd have an effective opposition. They brought this fight.

^ what, on 3 June, when he's not challenging Corbyn, he kept party discipline, but on 4 August when he's challenging Corbyn, he criticised him? What's so odd about that?

Eagle was even worse. When she was trying to hold the party together, she spoke very positively about Corbyn, but when the party started to fall apart and she was standing for leader, she said he wasn't any good. I was flabbergasted. I'll never trust a politician again.

when the party started to fall apart

Did she maybe have something to do with this? Or can everything bad that happens somehow be blamed on Corbyn. I suppose it's true: if he wasn't leader she wouldn't have had to secretively organize a coup with fellow travelers and launch it at the worst possible time. What a dick he is.

Did she maybe have something to do with this?

Well yes of course, she resigned like everyone else. I imagine her thought process went something like, "if I decide Jeremy can't do this job properly, I will resign". What a dick she is.

so we should forgive OS's duplicity because winning at all costs and chucking your own credibility under a bus is what politicians do?

ok man - i don't see the other guy doing that tho...

It was more than a spontaneous wave of resignations, as I'm sure you know. It was a planned move to oust Corbyn on the back of an unrelated political event (as much as they try to link them). Let's not forget she had leadership webpages registered two days before she resigned (and before Benn was fired). Let's also not forget it was registered by a Blair era Spad. There was also the leaked plans of the coup two weeks before it kicked off. The entire thing is, as others have said, amateur hour.

Corbyn may not be your, or anyone's, ideal leader, but don't give the PLP a pass for what they've done because you dislike him.

So basically having good PR/Marketing is more important than good policies.

Yay politics ;)
[a problem not just here btw]

It was more than a spontaneous wave of resignations

Of course not, most of them suspected he was rubbish for ages. I have no more problem with the behaviour of the PLP than with the behaviour of Corbyn's team and supporters.

The two aren't really contradictory.

Possibly on the 3 June Corbyn was talking about a positive labour case to stay in the EU on the basis of workers rights and environmental protections, maybe he spoke about other things but with less passion.

Plus, given that this was prior to the vote and Smith is clearly pro-EU it's unlikely he was going to say something along the lines of I'd like to stay in the EU but Jeremy doesn't seem too keen, don't let that influence your votes though.

I'm fairly indifferent between the two but if this is being used as a stick to beat Smith then it's pretty desperate.

On a separate note, on a football forum I'm on I saw this description of the PLP which amused me out-of-touch Westminster-bubble quibbledicks

So this is the thing. Everything to do with presenting a united front and/or making political compromises is presented as duplicitous, unprincipled scheming. I'm not saying Smith is perfect, but some of the stuff he's being slated for is normal party politics. It isn't something I'd like to do personally. But I accept some political compromises always need to be made between competing policy objectives given limited resources.

I love the idea of a "united front" and "political compromise", but where was this sentiment two months ago?

if the PLP and the NEC spent as much time opposing this government as they did sifting through member's tweets and facebook posts, maybe we'd have an effective opposition

Seems unlikely as Corbyn wasn't providing an effective opposition before the challenge. In fact, I think that's why it came about, funnily enough.

By what measure was he not providing an effective opposition? In terms of keeping the PLP in check, obviously true. However, Corbyn and Labour's ratings were growing in the months before the revolt.

Not that it matters. Labour has a much larger problem than leadership when it comes to the next election - the mathematical impossibility of winning a majority. But everyone in the party seems to have their heads in the sand about this.

Yeah, this is similar to my view. I think Labour has a lot of bridge-building to do to return to political health, and Owen Smith's promise to lose another referendum is not only preaching to the converted, but betrays a complete lack of comprehension regarding the electoral/demographic hole Labour is currently in.

Corbyn is quite likely to lose the next General election, but Smith and the ilk don't seem to realise the existential threat to the party.

Seems unlikely as Corbyn wasn't providing an effective opposition before the challenge. In fact, I think that's why it came about, funnily enough.

Labour did well in last local elections, and Corbyn's personal popularity amongst the electorate was growing.

Now that's all been fucked.

Yup:

Wait. Does this mean they were perceived as both doing an equally shit job?

Not sure anyone could disagree with that.

Exactly, the undermining of Corbyn by the PLP has undermined any hope Corbyn had of being perceived as a competent leader. Fucking useless bunch of cunts.

Here’s how the July 2016 polls compared with the July 2011 polls (taking the last poll in the month where there was more than one comparable poll and going for polls whose fieldwork was all done in July):

ICM: was 36%, now 29% – Labour doing 7% worse
Ipsos-MORI: was 39%, now 35% – Labour doing 4% worse
Opinium: was 38%, now 31% – Labour doing 7% worse
YouGov: was 44%, now 29% – Labour doing 15% worse

the undermining of Corbyn by the PLP has undermined any hope Corbyn had of being perceived as a competent leader

Corbyn still has hopes of being a competent leader. They were and are false hopes.