Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

Think I will be asking lots of questions on here over the next weeks. Am looking to get more into touring but wanted to maintain the simplicity of my build. I have ended up buying an S-RF3 hub and a Rigida DP18 Rim.... Haven't worked out my spoke length yet, best get reading on sheldon browns guide to work out what to measure.

Read up on wheelbuilding from Sheldon and Schraner, and use this for spokelenghts https://leonard.io/edd/

Just had a spoke fail on. Cx ray (£££!) on nds. Wheel is 24h with 2 cross both sides. Anyways, it failed just after the J bend, where the spoke makes a sharp contact with the hub flange. Here's a pic that just about shows what I mean.
see there is a gap between the J of the spoke and the hub flange as it exists the hole, and then it makes contact with the hub flange again at a very localised point.

Anyways, I think it's failed as its a stress hotspot. The fail is very clean, no fatigue lines.

To stop it from happening with the rest, what are my options? A washer between the spoke head and flange might soften the angle? Rebuild the nds radial?

It's how olde Englishe bikes were built, 40h rear, 32h front. It's great @mdcc_tester posted those nice velocity rims. If you want to find another 'period' option, jumbles like Ripley often have sellers with esoteric things like 27" rims in 40h.

You can find when and where jumbles are using the diary of events at http://www.bikejumbles.co.uk

But those Velocities will be excellent.

Cross post from any question answered:

I was wondering whether there is any way to convert my Novatec f172sb
hub to make it 11 speed compatible?

Then I found:
issuu.com/novatecwheels/docs/comp­are_f172sb_9s_with_new_11s_body
Which suggests they may be 11 speed compatible already. How can I
tell?

Would it be a sin to not cross over (interlace?) the spokes for a rear wheel NDS? My logic being, some people lace these radial anyway so do you really need the cross? (trying to address the issue a few posts back...)

Would it be a sin to not cross over (interlace?) the spokes for a rear wheel NDS?

Many factory wheels with straight pull spokes are not interlaced, you don't hear of many deaths resulting.

Did not know factory wheels were doing this. I will proceed then. Ta

Anyone here have any experience with HED H3 carbon wheels? A client has asked if it's possible to swap out the hub from one wheel to another. He has 650 rear wheel and a 700 front.

Hed3 hub shells are built into the wheels when the carbon is laid up, you can't swap them.

Any thoughts on choosing between ultegra 6700 hubs or novatec f172sb on archetype/tb14
For commute / audax purposes.

Cheers,

Dave

I'd choose Shimano hubs for the bearings and the availability of parts.

The 6700 hubs will be better sealed from water/dirt/life. And the freehub body will be more resistant to notching.

I have the novatec hubs laced to tb14s. I've not had problems over my admittedly low winter milage. I'm pretty sure novatec parts are easily obtainable and the bearings are probably a standard size so could be bought from skf or similar.

My main reason for buying them was they were very shiney. The have a louder clicking free hub than my 5700. Other than that I doubt you'd notice the difference.

The novatecs are cheaper, just by a bit.
I've been using Tiagra hubs laced to archetype on my cx frame for commute and a bit casual cross, so want to add another wheelset for the "on-road" portion.

I think you are barking at the wrong tree. Your spoke didn't fail because of the enforced bend... fatigue lines are not something you necessarily see by naked eye on a 2 mm section of steel... but fatigue it was... any failure which is not due to excessive stress is fatigue. Folks have been lacing 24 H 2 cross for decades without any issue. I suspect your wheel has too low tension, which is the cause of spoke failure 90% of the times.

If you don't interlace, you lose a significant amount of stiffness... I have tried once for curiosity and the wheel was literally made of cheese. Factory wheels get away with that by hub design (it's my guess).

Factory wheels get away with that by hub design (it's my guess).

My guess is that it's really the rims. Interlacing transfers loads from one spoke to another, but if the rim is very stiff then the rim itself will be better at spreading localised loads among multiple spokes.

You will find that shimano CL 24 rims or Mavic Ksyrium are anything but stiff... there must be something in the flange spacing that makes them stiffer than drilled hubs

Never tried not interlacing be interesting to see what difference it makes. Novatec a171 f172 hubs are half the price of ultegra hubs. Spare are available. On that basis they are not a bad choice they are even reliable. You could always use miche rg2 hubs these are very reliable.

Thanks for the input. Do you really think removing the interlacing will make a difference to wheel stiffness if its only for the NDS?

Also, can you explain how too low a tension can lead to failure? I thought that low tensions lead to spokes getting looser/unwinding all together.

Not an engineer, but how does this sound?:

Spokes too slack
Spokes move more than desirable, i.e. large difference in tension between stress under load and not stressed when relived of load means undue flexing. Fatigue comes from repeated flexing/movement.

/awaits tester to laugh at my guess

Close enough.

I still don't understand :(. Why would lower tension lead to larger deflections? I thought spoke tension and wheel stiffness weren't correlated?

try bending a wire coat hanger back and forth about 30 times

Not interlacing should in theory not make any difference to lateral wheel stiffnes but as I have not tried I cannot confirm this.

If the spokes are slack every revoultion of the wheel results in some lateral and radial delfection (as well as torsional strain) which results in a change of tension of the affected spokes.

If the tension is say X and the tension change is x then the bigger x/X is (i.e drop the tension and that will magically increase) the faster fatigue happens. Essentially what has been said above in repsonse is true. The more flex a wheel has the faster spokes fatigue so the stiffer the wheel the slower this happens. The higher the tension (not related to stiffness) the slower this happens. Set the tension too high and the rim crack (or in the case of Zipp hubs the hub flange)
It's all a balancing act but thankfully the receipe is well known to some.