Tour de France 2014

^ ha

^^ Wiggins may have put a chunk into Nibali in the TT and limited his losses in the mountains. I'm not convinced Nibali 2014 is better than Wiggins 2012, who was equally superior to everyone in the race (bar Froome and Nibali). It's all counter factual anyway.

So it will end with 2 Frenchmen on the podium. When was the last time that happened?

84? Fignon and Hinault?

Pleased for the French. Are either of those 2 capable of winning it within the next few years?

I doubt Peraud will be back. I got the impression he had aimed for a podium as his swansong.

Pinot is only a young 'un, and this alone means I wish him well:

Marc Madiot Encourages Thibaut Pinot - YouTube

Is Peraud the second oldest person ever to get on the podium? Poulidor got there at 38 and 40.

Zoetemelk was in his mid to late thirties when he finished on the podium in the early 1980s. I think he was 35 when he won in 1980.

I will never understand how Pate, Zandio and Lopez made the tour team. A fit and focused Wiggins would have come very close to winning this tour.

Please stop.

^ ha

^^ Wiggins may have put a chunk into Nibali in the TT and limited his losses in the mountains. I'm not convinced Nibali 2014 is better than Wiggins 2012, who was equally superior to everyone in the race (bar Froome and Nibali). It's all counter factual anyway.

Nibali was less than two minutes down on Martin on the 54km TT. Wiggo you'd expect to put down a time between the two perhaps. His climbing would have to be his best ever. Why are we discussing this? :)

I doubt Peraud will be back. I got the impression he had aimed for a podium as his swansong.

Not sure if serious?

It's interesting that even at this level those that look good TTing are (often) good.

Van Garderen when passing Mollema – one is rock steady and arrow straight, the other looks almost as if he's swimming.

a fish on a bicycle, exactly what I thought. he never looks pretty riding but this was the worst. Belkin receiving the proper new TT bikes from Bianchi at the second rest day (...) probably didn't help, but it was painfully obvious he doesn't spend a lot of time training in that position. Ten Dam at least took the professional approach and had his 'bike whisperer' flown in before the TT, whereas Mollema just had his bike adjusted to the other one's measurements and went for it.

Is Peraud the second oldest person ever to get on the podium? Poulidor got there at 38 and 40.

it's his grandson I'll be putting my money on in a three, four years time!

I doubt Peraud will be back. I got the impression he had aimed for a podium as his swansong

He said he'd been aiming for top 5 before AC and CF crashed out. His DS was saying that, because he came to the road late, he's still fresh and has a few more years in him.

^^ I just looked at his palmares - he's a bit of a beast.

I don't know what you can take from Sky's Tour. Not a lot really.

Porte just doesn't look like a GT rider to me, he always seems to have at least one bad day. Thomas did okay, but I'd be surprised if he ever made the top ten of a GT as both his climbing and his TT'ing aren't quite up to it. He does okay in one week races so maybe it's a recovery issue? I hope he doesn't focus on stage races next year and continues to aim for the cobbled classics, as he's got a better chance of glory there.

Nieve did okay, but never looked like he'd win a stage. Kiryenka punched above his weight, the rest were anonymous.

Been a bit embarrasing really hasn't it.

I don't think Thomas will be a GC rider now, whereas 2-3 years ago it looked like he might become one. Saying that though, he generally spends his TdF grinding himself into the ground, this year particularly pointlessly. If he'd not been wasting energy on Plan Z, he coulda finished 4 or 5 spots higher for himself I reckon.

Thomas : I'd be interested to see what he could do if protected and groomed all season long in the Sky tradition.

Wiggins : I can't help but remember Nibali going backwards in 2012 when Sky put the hurt on him. This year seems different, sure, but Wiggins would have only been seconds behind Martin in the TT, so i think he could have run Nibali pretty close, if on his very best clinging-on-for-grim-death form on the mountains. But we'll never know, and that's a very big 'if'.

Froome : Probably would have won. I've never seen Nibali stand up to Froome's attacks before, but it looks like it could have been a great battle.

Contador : No idea, a real wild card. His sheer competitive spirit would have set this tour alight, though. Frankly I really feel it's been an also-rans tour, and very disappoint for that.

Also : I'm curious as to why Martin isn't developed a little more for GC. I guess he knows himself well, but it's often seemed like he could pull off some Indurain type GC tactics if trained for it.

I think Tony Martin is very much like Jan Ullrich, a great tester who only became such a 'good' GC rider because like Indurain he was doped. The differences are that Martin is clean and that he specialises more in time trials, and as a result is not such a 'good' GC rider. I'm sure they've gone through all the permutations but have decided that it's more profitable for him to stick to TTs in the main. He always had a big jour sans when he was riding more for GC. I used to think that he might be in with a chance, as in this foolish post ...

Hm, it looks like a dull day on this stage, so I'll make a prediction: I think that Tony Martin will win the Tour.

He's well-positioned, an excellent all-rounder, he's with an excellent team with some of the best strategic minds in cycling, and he won't be guarded anywhere near as heavily as some of the other favourites. I think he can really spring some surprises in the Alps.

Just to stimulate some discussion, like. :)

... which was basically total bollocks.

Anyway, tl;dr--I think that probably not winning a Grand Tour is the price of riding clean.

Tony Martin has none of the pure talent Jan Ullrich had.

Anyway, tl;dr--I think that probably not winning a Grand Tour is the price of riding clean.

Evans, Froome, Wiggins, Nibali? Not saying they are all clean, but it's a bit much to assume they are doping because Tony Martin can't beat them in a GT.

No, not for everybody--for Tony Martin it's the price of riding clean.

Probably not winning a grand tour is the price of doping too.

Wiggins : I can't help but remember Nibali going backwards in 2012 when Sky put the hurt on him. This year seems different, sure, but Wiggins would have only been seconds behind Martin in the TT, so i think he could have run Nibali pretty close, if on his very best clinging-on-for-grim-death form on the mountains. But we'll never know, and that's a very big 'if'.

you're assuming that the Wiggins on display this year would have been the same in 2012 and I have my doubts there given Wiggin's stated unwillingness to give it all up for the Tour unlike in 2012

Really glad for Nibbles to win this Tour. I think he's a great rider and cool character. Big up!

What time stage start?

It's on

Or maybe it's still the neutralised part? They're riding...

This is a procession until Paris anyway.