New 20 MPH speed limit to also apply to bikes in Southwark

Difficult to see how, even if it is enforcible, even if cycles all had speedos, that this rule could impinge on any cyclists' riding much. If you're cycling consistently over 20mph on city streets, you're going too fast.

I say support 20 mph limits, and that we press for their enforcement, for all if necessary.

You don't need to exceed it consistently, just once. Speeding is an absolute offence. 20.1mph and you break the law.

You don't need to exceed it consistently, just once. Speeding is an absolute offence. 20.1mph and you break the law.

Yes but if you point a speed gun at my flapping tshirt then it could measure the wind speed on that day which is often unexpected gusts of more than 20mph and not an accurate reflection of my speed just a fast flapping tshirt(which isn't illegal). I would only recognise 2 pictures taken by a specially calibrated camera that has recently been serviced along with a set of striped lines on the road I am travelling over so they calibration of the camera can be checked yet again, seems much more fair this way as that is what is needed for motorists to get done or they just print out a handful of extremely commonly used letters and fill in the blanks to have a perfect defence.

To convict you of speeding all the court needs is the uncorroborated word of a police officer. Speed cameras are just the glitter.

Also, no, cycling consistently on city streets is not "going too fast". It's perfectly fine.

To convict you of speeding all the court needs is the uncorroborated word of a police officer. Speed cameras are just the glitter.

I'm sure police officers are falling over themselves to take such strong cases against people...

Climbdown

http://road.cc/content/news/124738-southwark-backs-down-20mph-cycling-limit

About fucking time.

And here it's made the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2014/jul/25/can-cyclists-be-fined-for-speeding

And here it's made the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2014/jul/25/can-cyclists-be-fined-for-speeding

The article is wrong about the Royal Parks though.

[Edit]

Rather, the article is a little unclear on the Royal Parks, and is conflating speeding with dangerous cycling.

How can you find out which roads are controlled by council and which are TfL.

Where I live in Peckham people drive like absolute belms around quiet back, residential streets and I can't wait to see a 20mph speed limit introduced.

Who's going to enforce it though, given that the Met have said that they won't?

People will still drive like belm, even on current 20mph road.

They're untouchable.

I know this but at least legally making it 20mph might make some people think twice?

Live in hope, die under the wheels of an agressively driven car, obvs.

It won't, it make them think twice about doing it on the main road because of the likelihood of getting caught, but on quiet side road, they can do whatever they want.

How can you find out which roads are controlled by council and which are TfL.

Where I live in Peckham people drive like absolute belms around quiet back, residential streets and I can't wait to see a 20mph speed limit introduced.

How TfL manages London's roads

Responsibility for managing London's road network is shared between the Highways Agency, Transport for London (TfL) and the 32 London boroughs.

We manage the TfL Road Network (the TLRN or London's 'red routes') and are responsible for the maintenance, management and operation of the Capital's 6,000-plus sets of traffic signals.

The Highways Agency manages the national motorway network, including the M25 orbital motorway and the M1, M4 and M11, and the London boroughs are responsible for all the remaining roads within their boundaries.

The details are all in Traffic Regulation Orders, held by Councils and TfL.

Enforcing 20mph isn't going to happen, but if you kill someone with a car while breaking the limit, it should surely have significant implications for sentencing?

They'll just dump the car and report it stolen.

Enforcing 20mph isn't going to happen, but if you kill someone with a car while breaking the limit, it should surely have significant implications for sentencing?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/family-of-nineyearold-radwan-uddin-killed-by-speeding-car-say-their-world-has-been-torn-to-pieces-8953485.html

39mph in a 20 zone. The driver's sentence was cut on appeal to 12 months.

A pretty light sentence for such a big lost.

I believe that there are quite strict requirements for camera installs - a certain number of accidents in a set period type thing.

And they are really expensive.

How can you find out which roads are controlled by council and which are TfL.

Where I live in Peckham people drive like absolute belms around quiet back, residential streets and I can't wait to see a 20mph speed limit introduced.
If you think of it like a body, the Council manages all the capillaries and veins (often roads with yellow lines), while TfL controls the main arteries (Red Routes).

These are the Red Routes in Southwark (you can see how debates arise between TfL and Council over who designs/improves the dangerous junctions):

Borough High Street, part
Old Kent Road
New Kent Road
Tower Bridge Road
Southwark Street
Blackfriars Road
Tooley Street
St George's Road
Druid Street, part
London Road
St. Thomas' Street
Great Dover Street
Jamaica Road

More here if you're unsure: https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-routes

I agree with you. McNeill is really bad, for one example.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/family-of-nineyearold-radwan-uddin-killed-by-speeding-car-say-their-world-has-been-torn-to-pieces-8953485.html

39mph in a 20 zone. The driver's sentence was cut on appeal to 12 months.

Leaving aside the joke of a sentence, for an uninsured speeding driver who killed a child, that case illustrates the law of inintended consequences. The driver in that case lost control on a speed bump. If the road had not been in a 20mph zone but in a 20mph limit there would have been no speed bump and the crash may not have happened.

I hope therefore that if we now have borough-wide 20mph limits there's no longer any need for the 'zones' with their "self enforcing" road hazards, and all that stuff gets removed. It can be replaced with actual enforcement.

Speed bumps are stupid. Cause noise waste fuel and do fuck all to actually slow drivers.

Speed cushions are worse:-

• Majority of cars have wide enough axles for them to be utterly pointless
  
• Increase conflict with cyclists as cars need to drive closer to the kerbs to drive over them at full speed
  

Speed cushions are a PITA, my road has them down the length and on street parking on both sides. It means that I have to come to the central gap to pass ( 23 tyres on a wet slope of the cushion is slippy as hell) which often come to a game of playing chicken with cars who refuse to pull in and let a bike pass once I have already committed into the bottle neck.