Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

will I have to buy new spokes?

When you lace old spokes to a new hub the chances of them breaking early increase significantly. This is what a legend of Wheelbuilding like Gerd Schraner suggests in his book. As such, I have never done it myself, so no direct experience. New spokes will set you off 20-25 quid or so and they are worth every penny. Depending on your weight DT Competition or DT Champion or a mix of those (lighter front/chunkier rear) are safe bets and miles better than Shimano OEM spokes

I want to switch the hubs on my shimano r501 hubs for something sealed.

Really not worth it. Just ride them until they are fucked (which will take a while, if you replace the original grease with a higher fill of something nicer and then rinse and repeat periodically), then buy a new pair. Whatever conditions you're riding in, you'll probably wear out the rims before you wear out the hubs anyway.

I think they're £70 a pair in the current Merlin sale!

Does the r501 have a serviceable hub?

Does the r501 have a serviceable hub?

Yes, it has conventional cup and cone bearings. You can take them apart and regrease them, and if you're a tart like me you can replace the balls with higher precision ones (rear) (front) while you're in there

Those hubs outlast two rims, and still spun ridiculously smoothly.

Yes, it has conventional cup and cone bearings. You can take them apart and regrease them, and if you're a tart like me you can replace the balls with higher precision ones (rear) (front) while you're in there

Good to know. I wasn't sure wether you could open them.

I actually don't mind repacking hubs. As bike maintenance goes it's quite satisfying.

That set of attributes limits demand for burlier spokes to a few grouchy types and OEMs looking to cut spoke count even further. In other words, don't hold your breath waiting for good retail distribution of Sapim CX, DT New Aero etc.

Madison imports DT Aero speed in all sizes and Aero Comp, but the latter only in <268 or > 290 mm. For some bizarre reason the most interesting sizes (those that fit 24-35 mm rims) are not available in the UK. They do not distribute New Aero, although I have seen Sdeals.com have them in a few sizes, but they normally bypass Madison.
Bike24 in Germany seem to be well stocked in Aero Comp, with all the UK missing sizes available, but only in black.

Sapim are distributed by Chicken Cycles, they don't import the CX.

Was going by the published Rigida Chrina ERD from SPA et al but also now read that ERDs of 607 is being stamped on them. Rigida is now also Ryde?

My own build of 296mm spokes on a DA7800 front hub (and a previous successful rim transfer) using the Open Pros was based off 605 and the DT Swiss and Mavic's own spoke calculator apps use 604, so 602 seemed an outlier unless they have changed.

Picked up an Open Pro in Sigma Sport today (currently way cheapest UK price @ £39.99 for all colours and including the CD version BTW) and whaddaya know they are 602 as was the worn out Open Pro it is replacing.

Picked up an Open Pro in Sigma Sport today (currently way cheapest UK price @ £39.99 for all colours and including the CD version BTW) and whaddaya know they are 602 as was the worn out Open Pro it is replacing.

Levis are 501 and Open PRO are 602, some numbers don't change... :-)

My Open Pro rear rim has got to 4000 miles in a year (all weathers) and the braking surface is looking worryingly concave to me. I think I'll be changing the rim soon.

I'm considering Ambrosia rims (from posts above) recent experience with an Exal rim has taught me a lesson - find out how hard tyres are to mount before purchasing the rim. I really struggle with the Exals.

So, does anyone know if tyres fit easily on Ambrosia rims (Evolution and Excursion) or will I need a foot long iron bar like the Exals.

Cheers

It's tyres plus rim combo that is the problem; toight tyre plus oversize rim = probs

With the Exals I tried a tyre that was unknown to me a PlanetX one made by Vee Rubber. It may be hard to mount on other rims also but I also used Vittoria folding tyres which on my Open Pros I can mount by hand. On the Exals I can barely mount them with 2 levers and its hit or miss whether the tube punctures. I've tried the usual techniques for easing the tyre on but no luck.

The Ambrosia rims would be used with Continental Gator Skins or Hutchinson Intensive tyres.

I'm considering Ambrosia

An excellent food for the long distance rider

The excursions I have bullt onto on-one hubs are no problem for tyres. The new (old) mismatch ones px sent me I haven't built up yet so not tried fitting tyre.

Ambrosio Excursion and Evolution are the same rim extrusion, the Evolution is then machined, the Excursion is not. That's the only difference. Evolution are among the easiest rims to fit a tyre on, so much so that I used to recommend it to those club ladies who struggled with the operation.
Not all tyres are born equal: some Continental or Schwalbe tend to be on the tight side... GP 4 Season comes to mind

Poor ladies, I hope they come in pink.

An excellent food for the long distance rider

It's not as nice as good old home made stuff though. It also makes a real mess of jersey pockets, and if you take it in the tin its a real pain to open with your teeth while riding.

I was on an audax last year and there was an NHS dietitian riding with us. To ascertain whether you were really hungry or not he suggested that you should consider whether your least favourite food would be appetising. Mine is rice pudding. The rest of the ride was - "Would I eat rice pudding now?". When we got to the finish and tables full of biscuits, cakes, crisps etc. there was a big bowl on one table full of rice pudding. The guys riding with me got a bowl full each and waved it in front of me and cracked up. Makes me nauseous just thinking about it. I went for sausage rolls and crisps instead.

Mavic Open Pro - 604mm. At least that is what I've used to calculate lengths for all the builds that I've done. Chrina is more like 608.

So, Planet-X managed to f*ck up my order twice. Due to this courtesy I am to build either front or rear wheel with plain gauged spokes. Which will it be? In one of this orders they also managed to get the spoke lenght wrong (shorter), which makes me tend to the plain gauge spokes laced radially on the front and 3x double butted spokes on the rear.

A cheap replacement for Open PRO is Ambrosio Excursion, with similar enough ERD.

I was hoping to replace open pro with excursions on a fixed wheelset (so i can rebuild the open pro to 105) with but the maths I did using values on spocalc gave me a 2mm diff in spoke length based on the different ERD.

Do you reckon this is a small enough difference to ignore?

I will recheck the numbers as was yesterday on computer, am typing this on phone.

I am to build either front or rear wheel with plain gauged spokes.

Neither; if you got them for nothing, that's still slightly more than they are worth. I wouldn't spend time building a wheel but not spend the £10 for a set of butted ones.

Do you reckon this is a small enough difference to ignore?

2mm is at the limit of what you can get away with, but I would never trust published ERD numbers, always measure for yourself.

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I was hoping to replace open pro with excursions on a fixed wheelset (so i can rebuild the open pro to 105) with but the maths I did using values on spocalc gave me a 2mm diff in spoke length based on the different ERD.

Do you reckon this is a small enough difference to ignore?

I will recheck the numbers as was yesterday on computer, am typing this on phone.

I have always used the same spoke lengths for the Ambrosio series (Excellence, Evolution, Excursion) and Open PRO. Typically for a 32 3 cross with a standard hub (like your 105) you are looking at 295 front; 292/294 rear. If your OP was built with the correct lengths, it should be straightforward.

So, Planet-X managed to f*ck up my order twice. Due to this courtesy I am to build either front or rear wheel with plain gauged spokes. Which will it be? In one of this orders they also managed to get the spoke lenght wrong (shorter), which makes me tend to the plain gauge spokes laced radially on the front and 3x double butted spokes on the rear.

Return and ask for a refund and buy somewhere else. It's not worth bending your build to the spokes you've got. Get the correct length, buy them from Cyclebasket, never got a wrong order from them

Hello,
I'm building a wheel set on campagnolo pista hubs laced to mavic open pro.
I want the front wheel laced to radial, but the menual says not to lace radial on campagnolo pista hubs.
Thoughts on the matter?