Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

I am Brezhnev

Not sure how this relates to a picture of an actor portraying Konstantin Chernenko

Not sure how this relates to a picture of an actor portraying Konstantin Chernenko

I think on this one you are right... it was a long time ago

They went through a lot of leaders during the Reagan years, even I had to look it up and I'm a bit of an amateur Kremlinologist.

Here's one for the aerogeeks:

Is a New Aero more aero than an Aerolite?

Zipp has an old example that is pretty close:

http://www.zipp.com/_media/pdfs/technology/spokeshape.pdf.bak (open with adobe reader)

the 2 wheels: A: 2001 303 24 oval spoke and B: 1997 24 blade spoke
are made with the same rim and A: 24 1.2x2.3mm spokes, B: 24 1.0x3.0mm spokes

the oval spoke wheel is about 1 watt less in aerodrag and 4 watts less in watts to spin at 30mph, so about 5 watts advantage in total.

So I guess your wheel would be a tiny bit slower with dt new aero, but about + 75% spoke strength.

Maybe build it with 16/18/20 spokes.

The bladed spoke in the Zipp example was a rectangle with semicircular ends, which is probably not such a good shape as the New Aero, although New Aeros look worse than an ellipse to my eye, I'd guess they perform somewhere between an ellipse and a rectangle with rounded corners. I'm pretty sure a true ellipse isn't even the ideal shape*, even for a wire which has biaxial symmetry. It's an area which might yield some more gains for anybody willing to break the hegemony of the CX-Ray, which seems to have captured pretty much all of the aero wheel manufacturers. Since many of those wheels use straight pull hubs of proprietary design, the constraint which moulded the CX-Ray, of passing through flange holes designed for 14g round spokes, looks archaic.

There is also scope to cut spoke count without losing stiffness with the larger cross section, e.g. RolfPrima use 12 Sapim CX rather than the 16 CX-Rays typical of competing products.

*For some reason I have it in my head that the ideal leading edge curve is a 5th order Bezier with end points on the line of maximal thickness, which (again something stuck in my brain, but without any clear foundation) is at 1/3rd of the chord from the leading edge

Anywhere in London I could walk in a shop and pick up a Rigida Chrina to replace an Open Pro on a commuter front wheel?

They went through a lot of leaders during the Reagan years, even I had to look it up and I'm a bit of an amateur Kremlinologist.

They did... I seem to remember both Chernenko and Gromiko who followed didn't last long and both had a deadly cold according to the information that filtered to the west ... :-)
They must have found the cure, as the following leaders tend to stick around for ages

I would love a more substantial aero spoke to be ready available in the way CX Ray is. As someone who is often asked to check and true carbon wheels built with CX Ray, I dread them. Half of the times they are seized in the nipple and being very weak at the interface between the round and bladed section, there is no way to avoid them twisting even if I hold them as close as practical to that point with Sapim's own aero holder. One reason is that they are often built with alloy nipples, which do seize, but even when built with brass ones, IME there is always a good chance of them seizing. For this reason I seem to spend a lot of time trying to convince people they are more hassle then they are worth outside the track, especially on rear wheels, that get filthier. I would happily use something like aero-comp (or even New Aero, slotting a hub seems less of a problem if it's just a Novatec one), if I could find them. The supply is not very good to say the least. Maybe it's a case of making do with what is available and getting a threading/cutting machine to make up for the lack in sizes, but it's a bit difficult to build a business case for the Phil Wood one (even the might of Strada Wheels had to go for a cheaper one) and the Hozan one doesn't inspire to much confidence

Hi guys.
Wheel novice here.
The non drive side spoke on my Scirocco 20 wheel went ping dramatically yesterday before jamming itself into my transmission.
long story short, I'm having major trouble removing the broken spoke, let alone a functioning one to measure it.
What options do I have? I don't suppose anyone has the measurements to hand? at a bit of a loss here.

Anywhere in London I could walk in a shop and pick up a Rigida Chrina to replace an Open Pro on a commuter front wheel?

Problem is Chrina ERD is 607 and Open PRO is 602, so the spokes are incompatible, unless it was built with too long spokes to start with. Check if the threads pop out of the nipple, only in that case you can re-rim.
A cheap replacement for Open PRO is Ambrosio Excursion, with similar enough ERD. Planet X used to have some (otherwise Evolution is the same thing but machined). It's a very good rim, last a lifetime and it's easier to fit a tyre on than it is on the Chrina

Hi guys.
Wheel novice here.
The non drive side spoke on my Scirocco 20 wheel went ping dramatically yesterday before jamming itself into my transmission.
long story short, I'm having major trouble removing the broken spoke, let alone a functioning one to measure it.
What options do I have? I don't suppose anyone has the measurements to hand? at a bit of a loss here.

Campagnolo are good to make things difficult. Is there a plastic cap that covers the non drive side flange where the spokes go inside? If so, find a way to remove it. There might be a manual online, among the tech docs, check Campagnolo website

Campagnolo are good to make things difficult. Is there a plastic cap that covers the non drive side flange where the spokes go inside? If so, find a way to remove it. There might be a manual online, among the tech docs, check Campagnolo website

Thanks dude.
I think its because the spokes are bladed I need to take the wheel off to do it properly.
the campy site was a bit of a dead end. I need parts WH-004SC and WH-005SC apparently. a webs search just says no.

ugo repped for the cx-ray inreallife achilles documentory.

Problem is Chrina ERD is 607 and Open PRO is 602, so the spokes are incompatible, unless it was built with too long spokes to start with. Check if the threads pop out of the nipple, only in that case you can re-rim.
A cheap replacement for Open PRO is Ambrosio Excursion, with similar enough ERD. Planet X used to have some (otherwise Evolution is the same thing but machined). It's a very good rim, last a lifetime and it's easier to fit a tyre on than it is on the Chrina

Open pro isn't 602 and Chrina isn't 607

Open pro isn't 602 and Chrina isn't 607

Adoubletap, do as you wish... I have built about 100 Open PRO and they are all 601-602. I was once caught thinking the Chrina was 603 as mistakenly reported on some sites, but it is 607, as measured by me and as it even says on the sticker. Spokes turned out to be too short.
If you have a different experience, then get a Chrina. I was able to get them from Halfords, but they no longer stock them. Would not know where to get one, unless buying online

You could walk into SPA Cycles, they have them.

That would be Spa cycles in Harrogate, North Yorkshire?

Open pro isn't 602

Isn't that one of those rims where Mavic changed the extrusion without changing the name? I have a feeling they went from 605 for the original ones to 602 for the slightly deeper new extrusion, but there's also a lot of confusion out there because Mavic publish a number which is measured in a different way from how everybody else does it.

That would be Spa cycles in Harrogate, North Yorkshire?

Yes, but he didn't say "where to get one near without going online.

Anywhere in London I could walk in a shop and pick up a Rigida Chrina to replace an Open Pro on a commuter front wheel?

You sure?

I would love a more substantial aero spoke to be ready available in the way CX Ray is.

The CX-Ray appeals to both weight weenies and aerogeeks, being among the lightest spokes and as aero as anything else within the margin of measurement error. It's also fat enough to make stable wheels for most people in counts as low as 16f/20r with deep rims. That set of attributes limits demand for burlier spokes to a few grouchy types and OEMs looking to cut spoke count even further. In other words, don't hold your breath waiting for good retail distribution of Sapim CX, DT New Aero etc.

You sure?

Sorry, didn't see who the original question was from, such noise from Ugo...

Was going by the published Rigida Chrina ERD from SPA et al but also now read that ERDs of 607 is being stamped on them. Rigida is now also Ryde?

My own build of 296mm spokes on a DA7800 front hub (and a previous successful rim transfer) using the Open Pros was based off 605 and the DT Swiss and Mavic's own spoke calculator apps use 604, so 602 seemed an outlier unless they have changed.

Was going by the published Rigida Chrina ERD from SPA et al but also now read that ERDs of 607 is being stamped on them. Rigida is now also Ryde?

My own build of 296mm spokes on a DA7800 front hub (and a previous successful rim transfer) using the Open Pros was based off 605 and the DT Swiss and Mavic's own spoke calculator apps use 604, so 602 seemed an outlier unless they have changed.

If you have 296, maybe you can get away with Chrina by using 14 mm DT Swiss nipples.
I made the same mistake as I wanted a straight swap OP to Chrina and read the ERD was 603 which did make sense. Turned out it was not the case.

I want to switch the hubs on my shimano r501 hubs for something sealed. Does anyone know the dimensions of the hubs that come on r501s, and if I switch out for these novatecs, will I have to buy new spokes?