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Fair point, it's a stunning bike and did make me think when I saw it a couple of days ago. I'm not sure it would look quite as nice with the Shimano crankset (and brakes?) though.

Re: Clearance
This is the rear with 25mm Gatorskins and Raceblade Long:

and the front:

On the back there's 8mm between tyre and the bracket for the mudguard. On the front it's definitely tighter and a bit harder to measure as I need to cut/file the raceblade's bracket down so that I can raise it without it hitting the underside of the headset.

So, I think 27mm with the Raceblade Longs will work, proper mudguards (eg. PDW) is a different story; I'd guess that rear would be ok but I'm not sure about front. What do you reckon?

Edit: looking at the front again, that's definitely not enough room for 27mm+guards is it? I like the raceblade longs so will probably stick with them for a while.

Price drop- £285 ono

@hugo7
I may well do, though that causes a problem if I want to use the open pros I have before splashing out on handbuilts. The problem being that I'll buy a new campag cassette and probably (hopefully) won't wear it out before finishing the new wheels, which I'd transfer it to. I'm liking the look of amrobsio Zenith hubs which come in at £73 for the pair at totalcycling, not bad.

Switching from the long term plans of building wheels to the short term goals of getting the bike on the road, the things I need are:

1. Cables: Easiest just to go for the Campag set at £36 but hear very good things about the lifeline brake cable set and could pair them with the Transfil gear set for £24. The smaller size gear outer for Campag can cause problems but the Transfil seem to work fine.
   
2. English threaded ultra torque cups- will buy from LBS and get them to install.
   
3. Campag 11 chain- I've used the KMC one quite a few times in the past but it seems to wear really quickly. I think I'll get the same LBS to install a genuine Campag chain as well.
   
4. Casette - Probably 12-29 for long, hilly winter rides- It's what I had on the 'nago and I did use it, spin to win etc. £79
   
5. Bar tape- probably Cinelli Cork.
   
   

The first job is to take this front mirage hub apart and try and get it running smoothly.

Wheels (again):

If I'm using Athena then I don't think 5800 hubs will suit the build. I know that they are very good hubs for my intended use, but that level of clashing is something I'd rather avoid. Also, I'm not even sure if you can buy 5800 rear hubs with a campagnolo free hub body?

Looking at campag hubs reminded me of a wheelset I have sitting in my cupboard from a 9 speed bike I had a couple of years ago (this is making me sounds pretty old I think, I'm only 21). They are Open Pro rims (plenty of life in the brake surface) laced onto old Campag mirage hubs, 32 spokes each. Perfect. Well, nearly- the front hub needs some attention, but being cup and cone, I should be able to sort it out with some patience. Also, the Open Pro rim is pretty narrow and over on the wheelbuilding thread the consensus seems to be that anything over 25mm will be a bit squirmy.

This isn't a massive problem as I'll likely be running 25mm initially but would like to experiment with 27mm to take advantage of the greater clearance on the Quinn frame (I'll post about this below). In order to save some dollar until I've shifted some bike bits, particularly the Colnago frameset, I will run these wheels to start with but still with a plan to build up my own at some point.

I think an interesting option to consider when selecting the hub for the build is using shimano 11 casettes/chains on campagnolo drivetrain; Lennard Zinn says here that it works perfectly. This might mean that it is still worth building on a shimano 11 free hub, the advantages being:

1. Cheaper casettes (Ultegra currently £32 chaper than chorus)
   
2. Not needing a £150 tool to install the oem chain
   
3. Perhaps easier to sell- the majority of people are after shimano free hubs. Thinking about it, this is very marginal and I don't really plan on selling some wheels that I have built myself anytime soon.
   
4. Possibly more versatile- can be used with shimano 9,10 drivetrains, but then it can't be used with campagnolo 9 & 10. Swings and roundabouts, I guess I just have to decide which I'm more likely to use these wheels on in the future.
   

I didn't see much point in hanging around as I'm pretty settled on the 5800

A lot can change in 24hrs.

I've put some bits of the Athena on the frame and I just can't see how the 5800 will look nearly as good. The Athena performs beautifully as well, especially since I forked out £65 last month to repair the RH shifter and upgrade it to the record body (and the added functionality which comes with it). This is what it looks like with my Scirroco wheels on (apologies for lack of air in rear tyre).

I've learnt my lesson from yesterday though and will hold out on spending any money or returning the 5800 for a day or two. Very fast delivery from Merlin cycles as it happens, sitting unopened in my hall:

I guess there's a reason why my projects normally take closer to 6 months than 6 days- thinking things through can help. That said, I'm finding that writing this thread is helping me consider my choices more and forcing me to justify my decisions; hopefully this will be to the benefit of the final build.

Having sudden doubts that maybe I should just keep my alloy Athena 11 speed groupset and return the 5800 when it arrives. It would mean having to buy new Campag 11 chain and cassette (not cheap) and not having a nice crisp new groupset though... I think I better sleep on it.

Cheers for the tension meter advice @fidbod and @hugo7, I'm certainly someone who likes solid numbers over vague 'feel'. I'm not sure I want to fork out for one just yet though, I'm unsure of how many wheels I'll end up building (certainly before I've even built one), if anyone was willing to lend me one for a couple of days in exchange for beer/money that might be really helpful.

Yeah, the more I read, the more convinced I am to give it a go myself. I'm also in the fortunate position of having access to a Park TS2.2 truing stand, hadn't planned on getting a tensiometer but would you recommend?

I've been trawling the wheelbuilding thread for a while, it's a bit hard to know where to start but using the search function with rim names is proving useful.

@thrillho
I hadn't considered the TB-14s but they look stunning and certainly tick the classic aesthetics box, also the build quality sounds excellent. I'm not sure if they'll be slightly too retro when paired with 5800, I think I'll wait until I install the groupset to decide.

@FredyCro
They do look good, personally I think i'd go for the black (silver brake surface) version, but it is all personal :)

Cheers for you suggestions

Yeah, I stopped being silly and realised this. I think black saddle, tape and tyres be enough for a nice balance.

I'm gonna go for silver 5800 hubs to be nice and matchy, also silver spokes but I'm unsure on rims. For example, the silver archetypes are very shiny shiny.

I pulled the trigger on the groupset this morning- I didn't see much point in hanging around I'm pretty settled on the 5800, I went for silver. It was £325 from merlin cycles, but this included carbon 5800 pedals- something I've been considering for my summer bike, so I'll do some swapping around. Merlin also allowed me to get 175mm cranks which CR did not.

I've also realised that my 11sp campag wheels+casettes should work with the new 11sp shimano groupset, this should allow me to get the bike up and running very soon. This is good as I plan on taking my time wheels.

Wheels:

Handbuilt, 105 5800 hubs, 32+ spokes. These are the things I'm certain on concerning the wheels this bike will have. The main things to decide on are:

1. Who builds them: The internet (strada etc.), LBS (best place in Bristol?) or me.
   
2. Rims: Archetype, A23, Open Pro, Open sport, others?
   
   

I'm coming round more and more to the idea of building them myself; it's something I've always wanted to try and this (high spoke count, strong) seems to be the perfect place to start. The possible savings are also a bonus, but the satisfaction of building my own wheels is the main draw.

I think it's now time to do some proper research on different rims and also lacing patterns. The things I think I'm looking for are:

1. Long lasting braking surface- this will presumably mean hard and thick. I really hate worn rims, these will be used lots in the wet and I'd like them to last a while before re-building.

2. Wide- I'm pretty sold on the advantages on wide rims, these will never have tyres <25mm so it seems a no-brainer.

3. Classic looks- Despite the modern groupset, I'd like this bike to maintain a classic, British look. I think what will work will become more clear once I get the groupset on and can experiment with different wheelsets. I really like the look of classic ambrosio rims and also slightly older mavic ones, research is needed to see if I can get get anything which also meets the 'wide' criteria.

4. Strong- For ease of build and durability on bad British roads/lanes/occasional tracks.

5. Not too pricey- Don't really want to go too much above archetypes; willing to sacrifice a bit of weight in the old 'light,strong,cheap' adage.

6. I'm pretty sold on the idea of having more spokes drive side than non-DS, not sure if possible with 5800 hubs, research needed. I've also read about using heavier gauge spokes on ds than non-ds and front, this might be a nice way to run 32 f+r whilst still biasing strength where it's needed.

Any advice/thoughts on wheel choice would be appreciated, cheers

Paint:

The original paintwork is in good condition, there are a few flakes around the FD clamp and the downtube decals but certainly no where near enough to warrant a re-spray. However, the 'Harry Quinn' decals on the DT and ST are recent replacements I believe, it looks like one of these jobs, not bad but I'm a bit concerned that they may peel up with no clear-coat on top. I'm not sure if the headbadge is original but I really like it:

The Build:

The first thing I did was swap the components I was taking off the Colnago (except gruppo and wheels) and switch them to the Quinn, here it is with Arundel stainless bottle cages, condor seat post, and erm.. Planet X saddle- might do something about that.

Since that I've also added down tube able stops and a 3ttt (3T?) stem and bar combo. The bar is an 'ergo power due'; I really like the shape of it so will stick with it. I won't feel any obligation to stay Italian with this like I did (to some extent) with the Colnago.

Bits to Get:

This leaves me with the two major selection choices: groupset and wheelset. Mudguards, rubber and bar tape are obviously also important; for the former I may make do with my raceblade longs initially and the latter are generally short lead-time and low cost so I'll think about them later.

Groupset:
I'm pretty certain that I'm going to go for 105 5800, it seems to be incredible value at £300 and I've never met anyone with a bad word to say about 105. It will be the first non-Campag groupset I've owned but I've always got on alright with the shifters on the occasions I've used Shimano before. A big motive for moving from Athena 11 is for the cheaper replacement parts, particularly chains and cassettes. For this reason it feels a bit silly to go back to 11 speed, however I much prefer the look of 5800 over 5750 and the reviews seem to suggest the performance is there too.

Silver seems to be the obvious choice but the black also appeals to me. I think some black components might the black and gold decals, though I'm not sure, thoughts? Too much of a mix might

Yesterday I went down to the Bristol Bike Jumble and bought this Harry Quinn frameset off a very nice chap.

The Plan:
I need a winter training bike as soon as possible so that I can rest up my summer bike. I have had a bike which fulfilled a similar purpose for the past couple of years; a 1990 Colnago Super with Athena 11 and Campag Scirrocco wheels. (Apologies for the plug) It's been a really nice bike but it's always felt like I was forcing an Italian racer out into the wet British winter for stacking up the miles against its will. The chain and cassette were well worn and the rims very concave so I decided that instead of replacing them, it was time for something new, I was incredibly fortunate that the nicest frame at the bike jumble fitted the bill.

The Frameset:

The frame is built of reynolds 653 and has a 59cm seat tube and 58cm top tube; 10mm shorter and 5mm longer than the 'nago. Stuffed in the seat tube was this, a copy of the original invoice from when the frame was built along with a note written by the seller saying that the frame is believed to have been built in 1993 (unfortunately there is no date on the invoice).

The seller also told me that the Q in front of the frame number meant that it was built by 'Quinny himself' and not his son. I'm planning to read up a bit more about the marque as this project progresses. The frame has quite a race-oriented geometry and also has mudguards eyelets. The clearances aren't massive but I will investigate exactly what I'll be able to get away with in terms of tyre and mudguard size.

This item is no longer for sale, I've received no offers or dibs and have decided that I wish to keep the groupset.

Apologies,
Michael

For sale is my 60cm Colnago Frameset, it has a stunning blue/dark purple/'carbon effect' paint scheme with chromed straight forks, head tube lugs, and drive side chain stay.

The paint has several worn patches and imperfections which I have tried to show in the photos. There is also some flaking of the chrome on the fork blades, I thoroughly cleaned the oxidisation which resulted and protected the areas with 'bike tape'. This was done just over a year ago when I bought the bike and there has been no deterioration since then. These imperfections are purely cosmetic and the frame is completely structurally sound, with no dings or dents. As the photos show, it is still a stunning frame and garners much attention.

The frame is constructed from Columbus SL tubing, and was built in 1990 according to the previous owner. The frame rides beautifully and is has been very comfortable on many long days in the saddle, but is also light and agile enough to hold its own on fast club rides.

The frameset also comes with a Campagnolo Record threaded headset in great condition, the bottom bracket is Italian threaded and the frame has a braze-on front derailleur hanger.

Size:
Seat Tube: 60cm
Top Tube c-c: 58.5cm
Head Tube: 16.3cm

Lots of photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/116220856@N07/sets/72157648681912660/

£̶3̶0̶0̶ £265

Collection from Redland, Bristol or postage at buyer's expense.

@enjamin sorry for the delay- I measure it to be 53.5cm, cheers

NO LONGER FOR SALE

Selling my upgraded Athena Alloy 11 speed Groupset, perfect for a classic frame. The Right hand shifter has is in actual fact a brand new Record/Chorus shifter body with the alloy Athena levers added, documented here.

The components:

RH Shifter: Brand new Record/Chorus 11sp shifter body (EC-RE100 R/H ) with the alloy Athena levers. This means that you get all the advantages of ultra shift; 5 clicks up, 3 clicks down, dosen't suffer from some durability issues of the original shifter. The levers are in good condition- text all in tact, some light scratching.

LH Shifter: Original Athena alloy ergo lever for a double crankset, also in good condition with the text in tact.

Front Derailleur: Athena 11sp alloy, very good condition, can be used for a standard or compact crankset.

Rear Derailleur: Athena 11sp alloy, cosmetic scratch on the faceplate but otherwise good condition. Recently replaced jockey wheels.

Brakes: Athena alloy 'differential' brakes; front dual pivot, rear single pivot (Looks really nice and it's prevented me from ever locking up the rear) . Excellent condition, currently have part-worn Koolstop salmon brake pads (excellent in the wet).

Athena Alloy 11sp Ultratorque 50/34 Compact 175mm: Most of the text rubbed off the crank arm but otherwise good condition. Outer ring a bit worn but inner ring excellent. Comes with Italian-threaded BB cups and bearings.

Lots of photos on Flickr ( https://www.flickr.com/gp/116220856@N07/vxGXv1 ) please let me know if you would like any more.

W/ Compact Ultra Torque Crankset: £̶3̶2̶5̶

Collection from Redland, Bristol or I can post at buyers expense, Cheers

Price drop - £25 posted, £20 from Bristol

Dread to think how much money was spent on this air horn on wheels.

Fair enough. I'm pretty certain that Campag 9-,10- and 11- speed cassettes all fit on the same hub though; I had a wheelset from my 9-speed bike which I've subsequently used with 11 speed no problem. This means as long as the wheel has a campagnolo hub later than 8-speed, you'll be fine.

What's up with the wheels and crankset? I'd be hesitant to dump a load of cash on it before riding it at all. I'd suspect the chain/casette/possibly chainrings are worn but if you're going to replace them all anyway there's no harm in seeing what it rides like first before replacing them. Could you whack some brake pads and bar tape on and ride it safely?

As you've probably established, wheelset and crankset are going to be the things that hurt the wallet most. In my experience, replacing cables, brake pads, chain, cassette and possibly bar tape and tyres will get most bikes running pretty nicely. Though obviously if the wheels and cranks are fundamentally broken, they'll need to be addressed.

Good luck with it.

It was shot by Harry Engels, if you were interested. He's cool.

I'm not sure I agree about Power Shift being trickier to work (especially just switching brake levers- their identical), the internals seemed to come apart in a similar way for both the Athena (PS) and the Record/Chrous (US) I worked on as well.

The point about getting a really nice pair of brake levers for effectively £20 is a good one though, I think that would swing it for me.

Got my Colnago sorted for duties again, so that I can let my Canyon rest for the winter after this weekend's hill climb. Repaired/replaced/upgraded the RH shifter so that it's now alloy Record 11sp (admittedly too nice for a 'winter bike'), documented here . Replaced wilko alloy cages with Arundel stainless to keep the bidons nice, and also made minor repairs to the mudguards (raceblade longs).

Not the best photo, I'll try and do better when I replace the saddle with something nicer.

For Sale: Mavic Altium Helium Jacket medium/small

Super lightweight jacket which packs down really small and weighs only 77g, so perfect for storing in a jersey pocket. Nice to have for some additional warmth at the start of a ride or if you get a puncture etc. holes under the arms ensure you don't overheat, off-centre zip doesn't irritate neck, and there's a large zipped rear pocket.

Sizing: label says m 'international' and s 'UK/USA' . I'm 6'2" and 70kg and it fits me- the front is short but fits well on the bike, the arms are plenty long enough and there's plenty of space around the body for layers underneath.

Review: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/clothing/jackets/product/review-mavic-altium-helium-jacket-09-34513/

£30 posted or £25 collected from Bristol.

I think with Veloce you'd only need to swap the the brake lever blade as the shift levers are black plastic anyway aren't they? That bit was really straight forward once I started putting some effort into whacking the pin out. Personally I'd say it was worth saving £20.

I wouldn't have bothered with the whole switching shift levers that I did, had I not been saving £50 and also getting an upgrade to Ultrashift. Plus I'm pretty pleased with myself now for playing about with shifter internals and not fucking it up.

Success.

After watching the video above many times over, I managed to swap the finger shifters without even taking the shifter body off the bars. This was mostly due to laziness- having already installed new cables and re-wrapped the bars, but also because it looks like a lot of parts to lose if you start taking the back out as well. This made it quite tricky getting everything in and out, especially the torsional spring, but it all seems to work again! A note on the spring; they are slightly different between old (PS) and new (US) and attach in different points on the identical 'finger levers'.

Thanks for the tips, hopefully this thread will help others attempting the same thing in the future.