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We have been talking regularly the last couple of weeks and as mutually agreed, I have made some minor adjustments to my graphic design to bypass what they didn't feel comfortable achieving, so hopefully all will be good from now on.
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I will neither confirm nor deny any speculation of who this frame builder is. And for the record, I have never had a build thread on this bike... I have asked questions, yes, but no thread... so whoever you think I am, I will also neither confirm nor deny...
I have had a response from them this afternoon with end of July being the deadline and some pics of what's been made, so I guess in a completely unexpected way, this thread has sorted me out...
I will reply confirming that I will be happy with that but no more delay and we will see what happens in roughly 6 weeks time.
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If you get your framebuilder to build me a bike, I'll tell you who that is. Promise!
I have been trying to get regualr updates like with sending regular emails, but they have mostly fallen into a black hole... and when I do manage to get a reply or managed to speak on the phone, they would then say it's soon so then it would make me feel that things might be back on track again... before I knew it, it's almost 2 years... that bit I admint it's on me, but then I would never have thought comissioning someone to make something is that bloody hard work.
I have been told by my friends of being far too patient with this whole situation, which to be honest, I am not actually a very patient person at all... I don't know why have I allowed this to go on for this long...
LIke I said, somone told this framebuilder about this thread and a few of you already know who I am and which framebuilder I am talking about... anyway, they have since emailed me to say they will get back to me by today to give me a definitive deadline, so I am waiting to see if that'd happen and if so, how far into the future are they talking about... failing that, it would be their offer of a full refund (for the first time as of yesterday), which by the way, I am concerned, although not my problem, how are they going to give me back the whole sum in one go.
For those we have asked why haven't I had a frank conversation with them and set some final deadlines, I have tried and like I said, "a few weeks yet" has been the closest I have been given and maybe I am too trusting when someone says a few weeks, they actually mean a few weeks. Bottom line is, when the ball isn't in my court, there is very little I could practically do...
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Oh my build me something requirement was very specific, I asked a lot of questions with what's possible and what's not, if not, why and what would be their recommendations and I accpeted pretty much all recommendations... I remember asking things like what is the different between the headtube angle from my bike fit and his suggestion, how the cables should be routed and the clearance for wheels and the pros and cons etc. How much more specific should I be without saying build me a bike that looks like that?
I never went to them and say "build me a fancy (type) bike".
I am not saying I am completing fault free in this drama, but we locked down the specs of the actual frame over a year ago with an understanding that the graphics was going to come at some point soon. Surly what paint job to go onto the frame isn't a decisison that must be made at the same time as what tubes to use and what angle the headtube should be?
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Let me give a bit more further info as to what's been happening so this might help to make it a fairer situaion.
I was fairly clear at the beginning of the process what type of frame I want and a lot of decisions were made based on my wishes and their recommendation on what's practical.
I'd say about 80% of the decisions have remained unchanged since day 1, there were some minor but not insignificant things like where should the cables go to and from internally, what stem to use because that would afect the headtube length, should the shape of the fork tubes ber ound or oval etc etc weren't made till much later, but I was following the frame builder's recommendation on what they could do and coudn't do and whats' strong enough and what's not. I don't remember rejecting any of their recommendation because I am fully aware of the fact that I am buying their craftmanship, creativity and their expertise.
I have never given them a list of technical details on how to build the frame; there had been some going back and forth for a few months with suggestions of changes that I didn't think would affect the actual building / welding of th frame.
I did ask I think about this time last year that if it would be possible to change the frame from a normal seat tube to a IPS, but only if they haven't started making the frame yet. if they had then I would have been happy with the original plan. I made that point very clear.
As far as tubing was concerned, all I ever said was becasue this might well be a once in a lifetime opportunity for me to have a custom frame made and the cost difference between mid range and high end tubing isn't that much, go for the best possible tubing. I had no influence on what exaclty type of brand of tubing should be used.
I will admit to dithering a fair bit of the graphic design part, as being someone who works in the creative industry, for me, sometime a piece of work is only finished when there is a deadline, one can always edit and tweaking their design forever... so I will put my hands up to say, I did do a bit of that. However, as someone who has no knowladge of the frame making process, I was under the impression that the graphic is only applied after the frame is completed, so I did take my time on the design part because everytime I asked, I was told soon but a while yet, that gve me the indication that I could still edit and change my design and maybe I should have drawa a firmer line on that and say I want to see the frame by (date).
I will also put my hands up to say that the graphic design I have made is rather complicated and it will be a very time consuming process and some parts of it might not even be easily achieved by someone who isn't an experienced finisher, but is this my responsibility or the frame builder's?
Saying all that, I appreciate everybody has a life so whilst the progress of my frame has been the number 1 talking point in a lot of pub chats over the last 2 years. I was really reluctant to keep emailing the frame builder to ask for progress because nobody likes additional admins and maybe that has given them the impression that I am cool with having the frame done whenever.
Finally, someone told this frame builder about this thread and they have emailed me first thing today offering to give me a definitive completion date by tomorrow or a refund.
So I will have to sleep on it to decide what option is the better one...
I feel like because someone has snitched, my relationship with them has now changed for the worse, I don't know if it would be a good idea to see this project till the end with the possiblity that an further deadline might be missed.
My head is telling me to get the refund and go elsewhere, but my heart is telling me to give them 1 last chance partly because I am under the impresison that they have already machined the parts that probably can't be used on someone else that easily, although this really isn't my problem. But largely because I have been waiting for so long now that I really really want my custome bike. going to someone else will mean I probably wouldn't get anything this year.
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Hi guys,
I am a regular and long term member here, but what I am about to ask you is somewhat awkward and those who know me would know immediately which frame builder I am referring to, so I have decided to use an anonymous account to ask your opinions. If it comes to the worst, I will have no choice but to reveal both my and the frame builder's identities to get back what is rightly mind.
Before reading on, this is about the frame builder not delivering at all after almost 2 years of waiting.
So it began in Aug 2017, I decided to commission a quite famous and very well respected frame builder for a titanium frame and fork.
We had many discussions on the design, technical details, parts and other details during the first couple of months, all was good. Their initial estimate was 6 months for completion. I fully expected some delay as with a lot of custom / bespoke orders.
Fast forward to around Easter 2018, so just over the 6 months mark, I asked this frame builder what was the progress, to which they replied not long now, but it will be a while yet or something along these lines... the next couple of months were a bit of a blur... with some occasional emails exchange to discuss parts and graphic designs etc... I asked him if it was time for me to start finishing the graphics so they would have it ready for whenever the frame was ready... I then sent me some pattern designs in Sept with some more chats about some parts, all was still relatively positive despite the fact I was getting, understandably, impatient. I didn't quite finish my design because they were doing finishing in house, so I kept tweaking my designs until I think around about Nov 2019 when I finally decided to call it a day and sent them the final designs.
I had had no reply for a while as to if the graphic designs would work or not for weeks... fast forward again to I think end of Dec / beginning of Jan 2019, I asked them if I could have the frame ready for my birthday in Jan to which they said it should be doable...
We finally managed to speak on the phone at the end of Jan 2019, we had a long chat about the graphic designs as they were also doing the finishing in house as mentioned before ... most parts of the design they could do with a few minor suggestion of changes... so I went and changed what they couldn't do and got back to them within a few weeks....
There was nothing more I needed to do from my end.... before Easter this years, I asked them when would my frame be ready and I would like to ride it during the Easter holiday, they told me it could be possible, but more likely not... or something like a few weeks yet or something...
Finally... the most recent conversation I had with them was last week - there has basically been no progress on my frame for almost 2 years, my frame is nowhere near finish, they told me they have the tubes but not yet cut, they have made the machined parts like headtueb and BB shell, but I cannot prove either way nor do I need to know what bits of my frame was done first...
In the past year in particular, they have given me a whole range of reasons / excuses from workshops issues to no machine to child care to relationship issues etc etc... now they cannot reasonably promise me when my frame will actually be ready, if ever.
The current estimated total cost is just over £4000, but they have never actually given me a total despite my stating in our recent conversation that now really ought to be the time we agree on a final total, I don't think it's reasonable for me to still not know what am I expected to pay in total. I fully accept at the beginning, we kept tweaking small parts and that would have affected the total cost, but what I want for my frame hasn't changed since I have signed off on the design, so I think what I have asked is reasonable.
So far I have paid them I think £2500 as they needed 50% for materials and I don't remember why I paid them more than 50%, there was a reason for it...
It will be 2 years end of Aug this year and I am not confident at all they will have the frame ready by then at all because it's summer holiday means kids and holidays...
My question to you guys is, what would you do?
If you know which frame builder I am talking about as it might be obvious to some of you, please do not publicly reveal their name because we are not as they publicly and openly trashing their name stage... yet...
@dancing james @Oliver Schick
My username has always been the same :-)
Sorry been off this forum on both my regular and this accounts for a while now - have been dealing with some real shit...
No, I haven't gotten the frame yet but should meet up end of this week, so we will see.
I should have probably been much more proactive during Aug and Sept with chasing this up or getting an alternative resolution, but I was dealing (kind of still is) dealing with being unfairly dismissed at work so this project couldn't be further away from my mind... Oh well...
I shall keep you posted after the weekend, hopefully with a pic or 2 (keeping my fingers crossed!)