Advice on tubular tyres

As for tape, this Caden Australian stuff is apparently very good. Much cheaper than that posh Italian stuff, and easier to remove. Made by 3M. But only in 24mm. https://carbonbikewheels.com.au/eu/product/tubular-rim-tape-big-12-meter-rolls

Dordogne Grand Prix des Nations

First time I've heard of Dordogne tubs! Pls tell us more.

Here's a tip I was given and haven't tested: for ease of roadside tub removal, leave an inch unglued opposite the valve, so you can dig a tyre lever in there and get started.

I'm sure M_V's advice is good, especially for track riding.

However, for road use...

My advice for road use would simply have been... don't!

Nah, @nick_h. you do you. I'd keep an eye on those tyres though, a lot of the trackies bought in bulk when Planet X did a 'too good to miss' deal on Vittorias a few years ago and I know some of them have been binning the brand new unused ones they have waiting in reserve as they've been cracking, delaminating and puncturing with increased frequency.

Eek! Would it best to store them partially inflated, so the inner tube can't stick to itself?

just chiming in here with some perhaps useful, perhaps useless advice, but this is my experience. Do take this anecdotally, but this is how i did it.

I've had some Zipp 404 tubs that i used for road and some Miche pistard tubs I used for riding around London. I just learned how to glue tubs by watching YouTube videos - there's a lot of resources out there and really it's not that difficult but does take a bit of patience. I actually really rate tubular tyres and enjoyed riding on them.

I ended up buying most of mine through eBay as you can get a decent deal on them there. My personal favourite was the Gatorskin Sprinter, but Vittoria Corsas are also a really decent option. Personally, I would stay clear of any cheaper options as having to reglue/change tyres is a pain in the arse.

In terms of punctures I found tyre sealant to be a good, quick fix, but as stated in the other comments - it's best to carry a spare with you - I always found Tufos easiest to mount so always carried a spare one of those!

Mounting tubulars can be a bit tricky, but here's what I found to be the best way to do it.
Stretch the tyre by mounting it without any glue applied on a spare rim (as mentioned above) - leave it for a day. At the same time, get the wheelset you want to mount your tyres on, put them on a bike and flip it upside down. Grab a paint brush and some tubular glue and spin the wheel gently while applying some glue and spreading it evenly with the brush. You need to do this 2-3 times, letting the glue settle for 12-16 hours. After you've stretched your tyres, I'd apply a thin layer of glue on them and let that dry for the same amount of time. After you've applied sufficient layers of glue
you'll (finally) be ready to mount the tyre. Same procedure, spread an even layer of glue on the rim and then mount the tyre, starting valve-first. Heave, grunt and pull the tyre onto the rim. Then you've got a few minutes to make sure it sits evenly. Think this was mentioned above but rolling it on a broomstick is a great way to seat the tyre. I'd pump the tyre a tiny bit personally before doing so. Inspect it, check that it's seated correctly and then inflate it a bit more and let it dry.

Personally the biggest downside I found with tubulars was that they don't tend to hold air so well, but for what it's worth I really enjoyed them and didn't think it was too much of a faff.

Personally the biggest downside I found with tubulars was that they don't tend to hold air so well

This is one reason for my strong pref for Conti Competition: they hold pressure as well as any modern tubed tyre. Trad Vittorias have latex tubes and need pumping up every time you go out (tho that may have changed). The Contis stay up for weeks.

Pneus Dourdoigne

As you can see, my first attempt at spelling the name was wrong - this is the correct version.

I'm afraid my information is of purely historical interest since the firm has long since ceased to exist.

These tubs were best described as 'artisan made'. I understand there was one quite small and very old fashioned workshop where the tyres were handmade by a small workforce. I believe Ken Ryall was the only importer.

We (the users) all thought these tyres were the best we'd ever used for speed. As you may be able to see from the photo below the tread was hand glued (colle main) onto the body on the tyre. I don't really know why, but this seems to be the hall mark of excellent tyres (Veloflex use this method today). It is said that only hand glued tyres need to be matured - vulcanised tyres don't benefit.

Sadly, at some point around 1980 something went wrong in that little workshop and the quality deteriorated. Nobody seems to know what happened - maybe there was just one key person who really knew what he (or she) was doing, or perhaps the ancient machinery just wore out. The end result was that the tyres became unreliable, and therefore useless for racing.

The tyre photographed below may well be the only one still in existence - I had to rack my brain to remember why I'd kept it. If you haven't heard enough (and I expect you have) there are two other, mildly interesting, anecdotes connected with this.

Other Historic Tyre Brands

Barum - also in the KR ad below were also popular at that time. They were fast but also very robust and hard wearing. It's interesting to note that these were Czechoslovak made, so a product of the Soviet empire. One of the very few consumer products that could compete as equal or better than most western products.

Dunlop - the British contribution. As a very young person I did have a few Dunlops that were handed down to me (punctured, naturally) be senior clubmates. They were excellent quality, but there was a problem - they were so expensive you would have thought they were sewn up personally by the managing director!

The Ken Ryall ad. was published in Cycling in March '79.

2 Attachments

maybe there was just one key person who really knew what he (or she) was doing

Apparently a certain Mr Dugast left the company at about that time!

In the 1970s, Frenchman André Dugast was working for Dordogne – a
manufacturer of cotton and silk tubular tyres that was based in the
southwestern France department – when he fell in love with one of the
founder’s daughters. Unfortunately for Dugast (although fortunately
for cycling), the love was unrequited. He decided to start his own,
eponymous rival company out of frustration.

https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rouleur-journal/a-dugast-outstanding-in-their-field

Fat Barum tubs for winter commuting, with a roller dynamo on the tread (not the
sidewall like a conventional bottle dynamo)

the tread was hand glued (colle main) onto the body on the tyre... this seems to be the hall mark of excellent tyres (Veloflex use this method today)

Likely because this is the method until then employed by Vittoria, who sold their equipment &c to Veloflex when they moved production out to Thailand where, of course, handwork is available at lower labour rates than in France

handwork is available at lower labour rates than in France

And the rubber is probably coming from there anyway

'To be fair' if you want the tubular experience without the faff, you can buy Vittoria Pavè CG 'open tubulars' for £15 at CRC. They appear to have loads, in 25mm and 27mm. Save time, save money — an unusual win-win!

Wow. Stock up!

I would, but all my 700c wheels (but for the Record on Ambrosio Nemesis sprints) are now tubeless. Oh, that's not right — one set has Veloflex 'open tubulars' haha!

@clubman Nostalgic pictures indeed!

What’s an 'open tubular’?

It's a tyre where the carcass is the same as a tubular tyre, but with a bead added so you can run it on clincher rims. It's a bit of marketing bollocks really.

marketing bollocks

Correctamundo! But as one who for several seasons wrote the Vittoria catalogue, I got quite used to writing it unironically.

I'm surprised no-one has reminisced about Wanker Bars. Perhaps their users had too many bangs on the head to be typing in their old age. From https://pezcyclingnews.com/features/equipment-nostalgia-fact-or-fiction/

"if like us you rode cheapo Barums or the dreaded Wankobar (usually
pronounced Wanker Bar) – the name is for real, Google if you must –
things were different. Both brands came from behind the Iron Curtain,
often via Milk Race team mechanics who looked like they could handle
themselves in a knife fight.

Barums were Czech and were either brilliant – safe, long lasting and
good handling or terrible – sitting crooked on the rim and developing
huge abscesses on the side walls; with nothing in between. Fitting
usually gave you a clue, if you and your buddy ended up covered in rim
cement and sweating like beasts trying to get them on the rim – it
wasn’t a good omen.

Rim cement was from Dunlop, a brown goo which went everywhere,
inevitably including your hair – I’ve never been more happy than when
I discovered double sided tapes for sticking tubular tyres on.
Wenkobars were cheap, looked good with their yellow sidewalls but
often you couldn’t get them straight on the rim no matter what you
did. And if it rained – forget it, they were lethal. Although we did
find out 30 years too late that the problem was that they still had
the talc from the manufacturing moulds on them, that was what made
them so slippy, and all you had to do was give them a good scrub with
a coarse brush and hot, soapy water and they’d be fine. Try telling
that to PEZ pundit, Viktor who crashed twice before he got to the end
of his street the first time he ventured out in the rain on them."

@nick_h. wins the thread (even if he copied it out)

the posh Italian stuff is actually Swiss.

No wonder it's so expensive!

Bumping this thread following a minor panic - noticed a few shops (Merlin in particular) who used to have good stock of tubular tyres now don't. Totally understandable in this day an age, but I have tubular wheels on two bikes and don't want them to be mothballed!

Are you hoarding tyres, or have confidence they will always be available, albeit at a cost or difficulty to get hold of?

Interesting question. I don't see how cyclocross can adopt tubeless. So there will always have to be manufacturers of cyclocross tubs. In which case they might as well make road tyres too.

I still think there is an obvious need for tubs when racing on cobbles. One or two riders punctured their tubeless tyres in the last P-R, then their rims broke, then they were stuck in the chaos waiting for a new wheel. So I hope more teams will use tubs next year.

This article also suggests a future for tubs. https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a36330863/vittoria-buys-dugast/

Maybe road tubs will become even scarcer amongst amateurs if there is a general shift to rule 105% compliant wheels with wavy rims? Narrow non-wavy rims are old hat. Masses of riders might change to the new designs, but will the manufacturers bother with tub versions?

Noted on the Condor website:
https://www.condorcycles.com/products/schwalbe-pro-one-ht-tubular?variant=44487129923905

Also Vittorias with big price reductions. But you are likely to be right. Tubs are already a specialist item. If you are committed, I would stock up while these stonking reductions are on offer.

You might also note that Cycle Clinic has Kinlin tubular ('sprint') rims at a nice price, and builds a good wheel. He also has Campag Record hubs with the unusual option of a Shimano freehub.

Fill yer boots!