Advice on tubular tyres

I have a lovely pair of Miche Pistard wheels that accept only tubular tyres so it is time for me to dive in.... they are 700c.

Can anybody advise on:

Glue?
Fitting?
Rim tape?
Good cheap tyre choice?
Puncture resistance?

Thanks.

@5115_Pete

1. Forget glue, use this https://road.cc/content/review/169313-effetto-mariposa-carogna-tub-tape
   
2. Strech the tub first on an old rim.
   
3. Rim tape??
   
4. Cheapest tyre is vittoria rally
   
5. Better than tubes, worse that tubeless.
   
6. Sell the wheels and get a pair of clinchers.
   

https://www.condorcycles.com/blogs/journal/how-to-glue-a-tubular-tyre

The last graphic, showing how to use a broom handle as a former to push the base tape in to the well, is a good tip.

Tubs are a lot more work but do repay the effort. Unfortunately cheap ones puncture relatively easily if used on the road for general knocking around. I recommend Continental Competition, but they are costly.

Thank you guys. Great advice. I'm going to go for it and try it.

Christ, that looks like a ball ache. I'm going to use tape but with the broom technique.

I'm not sure that cheap tubs are more puncture prone - it's lightness that you pay for with the expensive ones, so they are inevitably more fragile.

If you're going to ride any distance I suggest you need to carry two spares, and these should not be brand new (may be difficult to stretch onto the rim in a hurry at the roadside, and pre-used tubs generally have some glue still on the base tape which will help adhesion. Be careful how you carry the spares - many have been ruined by chafing. Fold spares with the tread on the outside.

Unless you're rich (or very lucky) you will need to be able to repair punctures. I could give a tutorial on this subject, but this isn't the time or place.

Remember punctures are more common in the wet, and water affects the adhesion of whatever sticky method you are using.

I agree with Harman Mogul the tubs are worth the effort, although only if you've got plenty of energy and enthusiasm. If I could specify a bike to ride in heaven, it would be fitted with Dordogne Grand Prix des Nations (silks, naturellement)

Availability is low these days. I've not ridden Vittoria Rallys, but the main benefit of tubs is the ride quality and rolling resistance - go for the nicest you can!

Second using tub tape, glue is more of a faff and also not easily available! Be sure to prep the rim bed too, clean it off with alcohol to make sure the glue/tape takes. Did not do this on a new pair of Light Bicycle rims and wasted a lot of time...

Maybe a bit counter-productive as you're already asking on this forum, but there are a few threads on Weight Weenies covering every possible question and permutation you could imagine.

Thanks again guys.

Tufo tub tape, you tube and two pens. Some vitoria rallye tubs are are a bit like a sinus wave in physics, the tread not being in the centre of the tub

How's the puncture resistance on the Vittoria 's? Am I going to go through all of this and get a puncture straight away?

Am I going to go through all of this and get a puncture straight away?

No tyre of any kind can resist plain bad luck.

However, FWIW the knowledgeable (and I'm including Ken Ryall, who imported those 'Nations' tubs) used to say that new tubs should be given time (at least a week) to settle on their rims after fitting and before using. Ken said he had had no end of riders who complained to him that they'd punctured on newly fitted tubs. Barry Hoban used to have a garage almost full of wheels with tubs 'settling'.

I think we must be starting to see that this is a big subject, and that having one pair of sprint wheels is just the very beginning.

Next topic: maturing tubs - is it necessary?

Ref punctures: Willing to jinx myself for this thread. I've ridden Veloflex tubs for 2x summers around Aberdeen/shire without a puncture. Keeping the tread clean inbetween rides and mainly riding on known routes (knowing where the potholes are) helped, but I did once clout a hole so hard it turned the bars but didn't flat, tyres run at 75-80psi.

I carry a little bottle of Stans sealant and a valve key with me in case I do flat. Not had to use it yet!

Presuming this is for road riding and not track? If it’s for track then forget the cheap tubs and the tape.

I’m often asked for advice for fitting tubs and my answer is always the same, pay someone to do it for you and make sure it’s someone that does it a lot. Many mechanics will take your money and give you back wheels with tires that are sitting uneven and bumpy and with more glue on the sidewall of the rims and tyres than between them.

pay someone to do it for you and make sure it’s someone that does it a lot

This makes good sense

I'm sure M_V's advice is good, especially for track riding.

However, for road use it seems to me one needs to be self sufficient. Tracks are not covered with flints, shards of glass or potholes. You will need to be able to cope with problems at the roadside.

As M_V implies, it can be difficult to mount tubs and get a perfect result. I've certainly had problems and I think there are tubs which are actually impossible to get completely even and smooth - especially around the valve on cheap training tyres.

Perhaps I'm showing my age with this last remark - I doubt whether there's such a thing as training tubs now, because you'd have to be a bit crazy to train on tubs when a. no one else does, so no one's going to have a spare if you run out, and b. wired on 700's are so good there wouldn't really be any point in using tubs.

tufo make several tubs that are for road riding and training ( tufo s 33 comes in different flavours) as well as some lightweight variations. now some people will say they are slow or draggy but they have puncture protection. tufo has their own gluing tape as far as i know.

No sense using tubs for 'training' (= knocking about). Buy good ones, glue them properly, keep those wheels for special days — rely on modern tubeless tyres for everyday use.

Training Tubulars

This is a concept that may need a little explanation for younger readers

The photo below, 'On Rockingham Hill' by Bernard Thompson has been posted here before, but it seems relevant to my comment above.

This pic comes from the Hounslow's 'Bern and Eth' ride, a weekend trip to Rutland shire which was about a hundred miles each way (plus whatever you did to and from the rendez-vous) and was usually done in February. It was a hard weekend.
Of the six riders whose tyres are visible four are on 27 x 1.25" pressures, the other two are on tubs.
It's not easy to explain just how bad those 27's were, especially for anything that involved speed, and to do that distance (at a brisk pace) at that time of year, was tough.

The heavy tubs that were available (eg Clement Elvezia) were usually about 14 ounces (400 grams) and, although not suitable for racing, they were as good as a modern run of the mill 700 and a great deal better than the 27's. If you were going on a ride like this, there was a strong temptation to use your training bike (with tubs and gears), especially if you weren't as strong as some of the others. Incidentally, the four riders on 27's are also on single gears (3 fixed, 1 single free).

And this ride wasn't just 'knocking about' it was training. I believe the year was 1976, when Martyn Roach (3rd left) won the National 12. I think the others all had some successes.

So, Cycling Henry, your original question has spilt a surprising amount of electronic ink. It's obvious to me you should give your sprint wheels (as we used to call them) a go, and see how you get on. If you're in NW London, call in and see me and I'll give you an old tub suitable as a spare, and I'll show you how to do a repair. If this is any good, sent me a pm.

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This is brilliant - the advice, the interaction and the lovely old picture!

Where are you in NW London? I'm in Hammersmith so could certainly cycle up to see you. Would really appreciate that.

PM sent.

We can have that Tub Repair Tutorial!

Looking forward to it!

Enjoy!

What about putting sealant in a new tub? No puncture faffing at all, unless you're unlucky with broken glass etc.

My answer to the questions of availability, price and ageing: I bought a big box of Dugast from someone who knows a pro team mechanic. They were very cheap. £30 each or thereabouts. Bought for the 2021 Paris-Roubaix. They have Mavic stickers, because sponsorship. Not used one yet, because of illness. Am hoping to recover and eventually use the whole box. I should probably put them in my will.