Is my steel frame trashed?

At work we use a cavity wax spray now that framesaver is basically no more.
Same product as used on the inside of car body parts. It's suspended in a solvent which evaporates leaving behind a solid layer of moisture proof wax

But yeah, worth redoing every couple of years

Interesting. It's on the turbo trainer and the front brake for stolen for my fixed bike so it's going nowhere fast. Hopefully it won't collapse one day.

now that framesaver is basically no more

What??? So no more random chemical burns and holes in my jeans???

(I haven't re-proofed any of my steel frames for ages either)

What??? So no more random chemical burns and holes in my jeans???

I don't know if it's actually no longer in production but it's basically impossible to get in the UK now

What??? So no more random chemical burns and holes in my jeans???

What?!

I use Dinitrol as it's a fraction of the cost for a larger can but while it might make a bit of a mess if it drips out on you it definitely doesn't burn or put holes in things!

Having been here myself I would put my money on this having been sandblasted and subsequently damaged.

Thin tubing and too abrasive media will give you holes like that.

If they used sand then 100% not the fault of the frame builder.

A lot of places don’t realise how thin the tube is and blow holes through the metal.

A lot of places don’t realise how thin the tube is and blow holes through the metal.

A place that specialises in bicycle restoration should though.

FWIW, I've seen another example of a frame from a very expensive and I think, well regarded builder that failed within probably a shorter timeframe that was down to corrosion from the inside of the (non breathered) tubes.

The holes might have already been in my jeans, to be fair. But I am sure I remember an unpleasant burning sensation from the blowback (and not washing it off quickly).

They should do and be using something less aggressive than sand. I would check how the paint was stripped

You can buy a USB endoscope for under a tenner and have a proper look.

But yeah, worth redoing every couple of years

Willing to bet nobody does this unless they make steel bicycle frames for a living.

Cheers for the info @PhilDAS out of curiosity as i've had numerous steel frames over the years and this is the first i've had issues with would a consumer be expected to re-apply frame saver to a steel frame or would it be something you'd have done professionally?

@M_V I seemed to remember there were breather holes in the stays but may have been mistaken as I don't have the frame in front of me.

With regards to the paint that is as the spray shop had started work on the frame and then spotted the issues and ceased work on it.

I spotted no issues with the frame when dismantling it and the seatpost / bottom bracket etc came out easily with no noticeable rust.

In searching my original e-mail chain with the frame builder I found their terms and conditions which does mention their warranty doesn't cover rust or if it has gone for a respray.

Guess this means i'll probably have to let this one go which is a bitter pill to swallow but thanks everyone for the advice / input.

do try and get a look inside the tubes if you can, either endoscope or just a mirror on a stick. You'd expect there to be rust inside. Also I'd probably want to strip the existing paint around the pin holes with nitromors or other chemicals to see what it's like without risking making it worse.

@Sumo will do, not expecting to be able to remedy it but more interested now.

@Dogtemple out of curiosity how did you resolve things with the people that blasted your frame and were you able to prove that it was damaged in blasting?

out of curiosity as i've had numerous steel frames over the years and this is the first i've had issues with would a consumer be expected to re-apply frame saver to a steel frame or would it be something you'd have done professionally?

To be honest, not something I've ever done on my own frames either but now that I work at a steel frame makers, we tell each customer to reapply it after a year or so.
Maybe the framebuilder will do something for you though. If there's no breather holes, it's a different conversation

What would you do to a frame with no breather holes as routine maintenance?

Was curious by this @Not/random-user but didn't want to sound like a total idiot.

Drill some 😂

Contentious issue as some builders swear by sealing tubes and having no breathers. Others say it's a recipe for disaster

I've had a lot of old steel frames through my hands, one way or another.

I've never seen rust damage like this - I would expect it to be more localised and to go into bigger holes where the frame had rusted.

By far the most common site for internal rust damage is the seat tube.

There are plenty of 50+ year old frames that are perfectly sound and have never had internal anti rust treatment.

Blasting: Heavy blasting is certainly not suitable for lightweight tubing. My knowledge is not up to date, but I can tell you that Reynolds said their 753 tubing should never be shot blasted. I used to use glass beads (a very light medium) to blast new 753 frames that came to me for painting. Fortunately I was never asked to respray one of these - it would have taken many hours to strip using beads.

Some questions: If your finishers are expert bike painters, why haven't they masked the threads in the frame?
How come they are putting on a second coat without having dealt with that old paint that's still on the stay near the fork end?
Has the frame ever been chromed? It is said that chemicals used in the process can cause damage.

In a nutshell: this should never have happened, but whether it's worth the effort to pin it on the culprit and then get compensation is a difficult question.

Is frame saver anything more than Dinitrol/Bilt Hamber etc cavity wax?

I'm sure there's something in there to dilute it so that its even more of a rip off!

Thought I saw a crack but was just a hair in the paint.......

Have you tried soda blasting? Have soda blasted bits of car metal/engine bits and motorbike bits, never had an issue with thin metal/ally.

Have you seen the dry ice Cleaning/blasting videos on youtube? Part of me fancies trying that on some bike frames.

Is no one going to mention the paint reaction above the rear drop out or am I seeing something that isn't there.

EDIT: Is there a small hole in the seat tube below the solder/braze/welded joint or am I seeing something that isn't there.

Wonder if the agricultural plough / farm equipment waxes are a similar mix.

I didn’t resolve it tbh. I just tell anyone to avoid keep powder coating in uckfield when ever I get the opportunity.

To be fair though I rode it for years and was never an issue. The worst of it was in the chain stay and in a non critical area. Holes are made in frames for cables so it’s not necessarily going to write it off. So long as it’s not in the wrong place or able to get bigger/cause a crack it should be ok. Use some sound judgement of course and do whatever to make it sound.