The fall of the Tory party

Seemed like you were just agreeing with Ted's original rant. That came across to me as a rant about a false equivalence going on. Like why give equal focus on a hypothetical future Labour government when we actually have a lettuce-competing, fridge-hiding, government right here right now to get shut of first.

'Keith' or 'Sir Kid Starver'

Quite enjoy Keith, don't know where it came from, or why. Kid Starver feels a little too #FBPE/cockwomble for my tastes but curious why it bothers you so much?

doesn't mean Labour are meeting the threshold for the progressive change we need. There are certainly some problematic similarities

⛪

The 'just' there ^ is too strong, meant you two were actually aligned rather than in disagreement overall!

Menzies was on the whips email thing that did the rounds ages ago as 'likes to use male escorts'. It's not news to them.

The trope that all [plitical parties are the same is for the terminally hard of thinking. Rather, it would be far better to concentrate on how fptp limits politicians and basically just infantilises politics to little more than petulant and spiteful tribalism. We all need freeing from this no matter your politics. The sooner the better.

trope that all [plitical parties are the same

certainly not what I was saying though I think there are more similarities than a lot of people care to admit (with this iteration of labour anyway)

Couldn't agree more with the rest of yr post

You can only shake your head at the level of sophistry here. Completely ridiculous.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/18/kemi-badenoch-uk-wealth-not-from-white-privilege-colonialism

Seemed like you were agreeing with Ted's original rant. [...] Like why give equal focus on a hypothetical future Labour government when we actually have a lettuce-competing, fridge-hiding, government right here right now to get shut of first

Oh, maybe I wasn't very clear! There's every reason to criticise both with equal focus. Labour will have at minimum five solid years of a hefty majority, so if they're sticking with an outdated economic model in what will likely be an unstable, low-growth, high-inequality period it will have much farther-reaching consequences than some minor Tory's banal sex extravaganza, or Angela Rayner's tax affairs.

The Tories trash every public service, public endeavour, and public conscience they can get their hands on, and have set the conversation for decades — that needs arguing against at all costs, at every opportunity. Most media interviewers however don't raise the social, human or environmental cost of their policies in response, and sit happily in silence thinking that some pound coins have been spared under the guise of neutrality.

If we want to see progressive policies, critique is all we've got, basically.

There's every reason to criticise both with equal focus.

Oh, I disagree then. One is yet to shit on the carpet, the other has machine-gunned it with shit for 14 years and continues to do so.

and sit happily in silence

I think this is on purpose because the tactic was in place when the carpet shitting was occasional, has worked even better as far as polls go throughout the machine gun shitting, they're essentially sat on a mountain of turd, trying not to disturb any incase it gets all over them and clears it off the carpet. Just wait it out like they are and then have at the other stuff, it's stuff I desperately want them to do better on, but they'll find it easier with less shit to clean off themselves first, and even if they're not actively very good at cleaning shit up, the hiatus from the gaping arsehole of more shit is something to look forward to.

😂

The rant was not intended to imply that Labour cannot be criticised - they can and should be but proportionally at this stage, they aren’t holding the conch - but for the utterly bankrupt “Labour and the Tories are the same” BS.

As Newman and Baddiel would have it (and leaning into horribly dating myself), you see that thunderer? That’s you, that is

She’s a walking contradiction is our Kemi. A delusional bullshitting moron. Like almost all conservatives

tankie

fucking lol. anything left of centre here.

tankie wank

is a delightful turn of phrase though

do love a good that's you that is but I'd ask that you please point me to where I've called him either of those names.

my question was genuine btw. feel free to keep insulting or dismissing people that disagree with you as trolls though.

Baddiel

now there is a thunderer

btw, have never said they're the same. have said I don't think things will improve massively under a lab gov, they'll basically be a centre-right gov (see:coalition) and that they agree on far more than I'm comfortable with, but not that they're the same. am not that fucking stupid.

Streeting IS a Tory though.

but for the utterly bankrupt "Labour and the Tories are the same" BS

Yeah, nobody actually believes this. Which is why I said this earlier:

these statements—from the left at least—are generally not being literal about exact equality between the major parties' policy programmes, as I'm sure you've figured out. Any vaguely left-wing commenter can clearly see the destructive nature of the Conservative government and it's basically without question that Labour is preferable.

My point is that there's an annoying rift between otherwise progressive people on largely partisan terms, and it's not necessary in the slightest. What's the actual difference in policy preference? How does it differ from others?

Anyway, I've had my rant too I suppose, so I'll duck out of this for a bit.

The whole point is to rid ourselves of the Tory party at the forthcoming election. Hopefully, they'll receive such a massive kicking that they'll no longer be the official opposition. Collectively, we all need a breathing space. We can then, as leftists, just do our best to hold Labour's feet to the fire and maybe extract something positive from them. In our 'managed democracy' through the pressure of public opinion this is all we have at our disposal.

First plane with engines running to take off, election date called I’m going to guess

Some talk on times radio that a summer election is looking likely.

I'm getting my postal vote arranged right now in case I'm on holiday

Yeah, nobody actually believes this.

I do accept that On Here the left criticism of Starmer tends to be a little more measured than in other parts of the internet, but all you need to do is head over to the This Fella Starmer thread to see people - who I've no reason to suspect are being dishonest - saying exactly that.

I really hope so. Each and every day these lot are in power everything gets worse.

Maybe the local election results will push a confidence vote and sunak will see the writing and call the GE. We can but hope

sunak will see the writing

If he can't see that by now, then there's no hope surely? I'd contend he is intent on hanging on as long as possible to do his donors as many favours as he can and just in case some miracle gives him a boost in the polls.