Russian invasion of Ukraine

Grim picture of life in occupied Melitopol:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DecodingTrolls/status/1523714579687108608

"Ruschists arranged a holiday, distributed ice cream, candy, and made
free admission to the rides for free. Opened the pool and ice rink,
halved the entrance price. All these activities are removed on camera
and then broadcast on propaganda channels..." 7/

A photo of what allegedly was a humanitarian aid for Ukrainians but in reality it was just empty packaging stuffed with styrofoam. Intended to film some propaganda.

Other sources state that it's Ukrainians themselves stole the food on the way to its final destination. It's crazy out there.

1 Attachment

Ok this is funny

1 Attachment

Amazing report from the BBC in the NE front. Not on their website but published in full on twitter including footage of corpses which wouldnt be appropriate for normal BBC Channels. Rough stuff

https://twitter.com/sommervilletv/status/1502000265490227206?s=20&t=aNwBEjA9dEXaoxt5npfhqQ

"they fight like it's 1941" - it's not the first time I hear this.

It's like Russians haven't done any real fighting and their tactics haven't advanced since ww2. Because.. who would stand against 2nd strongest army in the world, right?

Good reportage, thanks for sharing

I am from Russia, was born here in Leningrad in the end of 1980s (not easy times) and my parents are Armenian/Russian. I traveled 40+ countries in my life, explored a lot of places in post soviet world with bike, been from Lviv to Altai, from Murmansk to Crimea, from Ufa to Baku. And what I want to say is that I totally support UKRAINE and my position is against this shit war!

Yeah it is a shit war, and I hope that Ukraine win and get all of their territory back.
But it’s not your fault what goes on in the world, and if your adventures ever bring you to Denmark let me know if you need a place to crash. You would be welcome in my home.

Another day, another war crime.

Casually shooting people you just asked cigarettes from.

https://youtu.be/WGg7ZJlihi8

That was on the BBC news at 10 in early March. I was suprised how graphic it was but think they felt it needed to be reported. Quentin Sommerville did another piece last night. Less graphic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61378196

Just came here to post this. So fucked and brazen.

I appreciate your words of support, and I also hope that the war will end soon as well as the Poo regime.

Let's not forget that we British deliberately killed German civilians in WW2 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/22/worlddispatch.germany#:~:text=Around%20600%2C000%20German%20civilians%20died,perished%20in%20a%20vast%20firestorm.

I don't think they started shooting civilians after a week into the war nor is Ukraine comparable to Nazi Germany.

Is the Russian invasion of Ukraine thread a place for this?

Every time we accuse others of war crimes we need to think about how our own history is seen by others

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/whataboutery

I feel like this is whataboutism but I also feel like civilisation 80 years ago was way less advanced in terms of human rights and everything so in my mental model war crime 80 years ago was lesser crime than it is today. But of course it's wrong to think like that - war crime is a war crime.

The comparison is interesting not just from a legal standpoint but from a military one. The RAF bombed civilians to stop them working in munitions factories, to force the German army to divert soldiers from the Russian front, and to weaken national morale.

The Russians kill civilians to weaken Ukrainian morale. Initially the effect is to anger Ukrainians and cause them to fight harder. But the Russians anticipate that if they keep killing civilians in the long term, the nation will lose the will to fight. This has happened many times in other wars.

Presumably the Russians also do it to stop civilians supporting the army, by treating wounded soldiers, driving trucks in weapons convoys, spotting targets, converting drones, and so on? We have seen that the war is a national effort for Ukraine. Many civilians work hard to help the military. Bombing a hospital has a great deal of military value if you anticipate that the other side's soldiers might be treated there in the future.

the nation will lose the will to fight. This has happened many times in other wars.

Examples?

Too many to list. Germany and Japan in WW2, etc, ad infinitum.

I can’t think of many examples of Germany or Japan loosing the will to fight, mass desertions, mutiny etc. The Germans fought amazing rearguard actions look at the time between D day and the fall of Berlin.
The Japanese high command would have happily sacrificed millions of civilians. They may have had fall in morale in the Army but this was due to poor leadership from Officers and NCOs not civilian deaths

Vietnam is a prime recent example of a nation not willing to lose, no matter the cost.
Also German terror bombing of British cities was intended to crush morale and that didn't work did it.

This "Every time we accuse others of war crimes we need to think about how our own history is seen by others" is daft. The sins of the dead do not compromise our moral standpoint today.

German terror bombing of British cities was intended to crush morale and that didn't work did it.

You can't really compare. Total civilian deaths for the UK were 67,000, of which half were in the Blitz. Total civilian deaths for Germany were between 1.5 and 3 million.

The sins of the dead do not compromise our moral standpoint today.

They do, especially if you pretend they didn't happen. War crimes are tried in court, where legal precedents usually determine the outcome.

Personally I think Russia's invasion is a crime, whether they kill anyone or not. i'd say that every war of aggression is criminal. But the law doesn't work that way, because if you class the invader as a criminal just for stepping over the border, you don't give him an incentive to feed POWs or not use chemical weapons.

So with 3 million civilian dead did the Germans loose the will to fight?