Russian invasion of Ukraine

I don't know much about fighter jets but aren't those proper old? I mean even with updated tech the chassis is still very dated. Won't they be a very easy target for modern anti air weapons?

They are. 1960s vintage. They mean MIG-29s, a very different proposition.

1 Attachment

Anything anthesis of America will be considered good, in those parts. There is lots of mis information/ conspiracies that are common place (fanned by social media platforms) that the general publics opinions and version of the facts is mostly warped and muddied.

Also large post colonialism mistrust of western nations.

Reuters link:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-ready-place-all-its-mig-29-jets-disposal-us-2022-03-08/

I’m guessing there must be some additional support for Poland’s Air defence as they must be short of F16 pilots whilst the Mig pilots retrain.

The SU25 is a ground attack aircraft, the Soviet A10 btw

They already run both - the Migs were due to be phased out in a couple of years.

Don’t think you can jump from one jet into a different type, So they might have additional aircraft from the US but not enough pilots.

I expect they’ll be taking some kind of capability gap in exchange for free F-16s. I’d also expect that other NATO members will have agreed to cover the gap, operationally, while they train their MiG pilots over to the F-16.

They’ve 48 F16s. Plus a US contingent has been based there since January to beef up patrols. Plus there aren’t a couple of dozen unused F16s just lying around somewhere. Most likely they’ll be a trade-in for the new F35s Poland already has on order - and which were going to replace the Migs anyway.

Erm....didn’t I say that?

Dibble
I’m guessing there must be some additional support for Poland’s Air defence

Plus there aren’t a couple of dozen unused F16s just lying around somewhere.

Bet you there are, might not be the correct model though.
Do you think Poland will get bumped up the waiting list for F35s?

Yeah, the thing it is not only bot accounts. There are people I’ve followed for years so I would understand the World better. Another trend is that people in third World countries seem to think they are able revenge colonialism by siding with China and Russia.

I think these 3rd world Putin fans are a bit blind to the racism in Russia. It's as bad as Britain in the '70s, if not worse.

The Polish Air Force F-35s aren’t due to become operational until 2028. The MiG-29s represent about 25% of their current fast jet fleet, so they’ll be needing something to tide them over until then - I would be surprised if it isn’t F-16C/D from the USAF.

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out, and whether Russia makes a distinction between Poland giving the MiGs to the USA who then give them to Ukraine, vs Poland supplying them directly to Ukraine.

Fiona Hill on Putin

Yes sorry, I missed your earlier post

The Polish Mig 29s will have had lots of upgrades and mods to make them interoperable with other Nato air forces. Which means they won't be compatible with Ukrainian weapons and comms and hardware, which are Russian. It's going to be quite a job to get the planes and pilots and maintenance people up to speed so they can face the Russian anti-air weapons. But it's a great way for Poland to offload some old nails in exchange for F16s.

No worries.

The interesting question is who will back up the Poles in the meantime, would the USAF be too provocative? How about the Dutch or Belgium.

It’s a one way move for Poland as I guess Russia won’t be supplying any spare parts for the Migs from now on.

Plus there aren’t a couple of dozen unused F16s just lying around somewhere.

The US National Guard has hundreds of them not doing very much. I'm sure they can spare a few.

thanks Amey, that was good

Nato countries would likely cover any interim shortfall.

if you google F16 boneyard theres lots shrinkwrapped and parked up in Arizona
https://defenceview.in/us-reborn-f-16-fighter-from-graveyard-still-more-durable-than-su-30/

who will back up the Poles in the meantime, would the USAF be too provocative?

I think NATO is in the mood to be provocative at the moment! Or assertive, at least. There’ll likely be greatly increased NATO deployments in all the Eastern European member states, not just Poland, for many years to come after this, so we can probably expect rotating coverage from the other members.

This explanation of the term “Operation”as in Putins “Special Operation” is from a review of the Soviet Afghan war written by the Soviet High Command.
Maybe it translates better as campaign, but this only stands up if both translators go back to the same Russian word.

1 Attachment

The book also says the large number of desertions from the Soviet era Afghan army was due to”the low level of political understanding of the soldiers”

A side note to the F-16s to Poland conversation, I'd be surprised if the Polish, or any, Air Force didn't have significantly more pilots trained on any one type than the total number of aircraft available.

When I learnt to fly at my then (Naval) gliding club, a USN F/A-18 pilot was over on secondment 'flying a desk' with the Fleet Air Arm. He told me with lament that even with all the planes the USN have the pilots are on 3 (or 6, I can't quite remember) year cycles of being a 'front line' pilot and then doing some other role, only flying enough to keep current. The result being far more qualified pilots bashing about than seats in cockpits. I guess it's a way to keep a number of reserve yet current pilots on roster if they're needed.

All this plane geekery is interesting and all, but it gives me chills to think there are normal people like me out there in Ukraine and other wartorn parts of the world on the receiving end of what these planes and pilots are designed and trained to do.