How do I bathroom / kitchen / extension? etc.

YES BUT I WANT LONDON SPECIFIC DATA FROM THE BBC PAGE

I'm not outing myself as a wood burner advocate here BTW! I am just trying to validate my astonishment that Wood Burning stoves are "the main source to London pollution" as per Sparky's comment.

I did post this on the last page. Studies tend to be UK-wide. The one you keep banging on about was UK-wide. There was a detailed study in 2014 that showed log fires contributed 7-9% of PM10 in London specifically. Since then sales of log burners have risen, consumption of wood fuel has risen and car emissions have dropped as a result of ULEZ and cleaner engines.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231013009825

You might be surprised that wood burning is such a large contributor but the science is pretty solid: burning wood is hugely inefficient and pumps out a lot of particulate pollution. When London is fully switched over to electric vehicles then it's going to be an enormous percentage of the overall air pollution problem. There's also the issue that this is mostly down to middle-class hygge burning - it's an aesthetic choice.

Honestly even I was surprised when I read that because you 'see' vehicular pollution and is easily believable. I live in a reno heavy neighbourhood (about 15 instagram reno accounts at least) and I am always surprised how it smells like someone is having an open fire when I open the doors.

Amused by this too:

Can you send me all those reno account links? I'm hunting for ideas for my new place.

geniune question: where is the data saying "its the main source of pollution in London right now"?

The are referring to a very specific type of pollution, PM2.5 or whatever. It's likely that other stuff is responsible for far greater volumes of stuff, but they are focussing on PM2.5.

Because PM2.5 is the most dangerous to human health.

(ignoring knock-on effects from climate change caused by other pollutants)

This is a few years old (2019), but it's for London only (by the GLA).

Transport was responsible for 30% of PM2.5 in London and domestic biomass/wood burning was second at 16%, followed by building sites at 15%.

The report mentions there's already a plan in place to ban ALL combustion in cities (at certain times) to help us reach the WHO 2030 PM2.5 target.

If you're really worried about PM2.5, then I'd get a sensor to check your background levels (which will most likely be less than 15mg/m3), I'd consider an air purifier if you're above 50mg/m3.

Also: stop celebrating pancake day, NEVER use joss sticks and avoid walking next to roads...

People citing thrift as justification for a woodburner are either ignorant (it often costs several thousand quid to clear a chimney and purchase/install the thing) or they are burning wet/waste wood... In which case 😑

I mean we know it's not thrifty. Can't be that and a middle-class hygge thing.

is it a wood burner if you just use it to burn rubbish?

You're probably a biomass facility, if you burn rubbish.

Wasn't there a guy on the bastard neighbours thread having a big rubbish and tyre fire in his garden? May have been another forum.

Ive never burnt any tyres. love jet washing mind

One of us lives next to Albert Steptoe?

is it a wood burner if you just use it to burn rubbish?

Shit PPE and COVID contract emails?

ah you're in the Whatsapp group too?

I burn waste wood that my builder drops off for me. I never buy it. It's a waste product. It's not my primary source of heating. I acknowledge it's not good for the environment but I also own two cars, neither of which are very good for the environment (my older one particularly so). I use my cars sparingly and with consideration. I do the same with my wood burner.

I'm not going to stop using my wood burner though. It's one of the DEFRA approved ones anyway. If DEFRA have approved it, it can't be all that bad can it?

No vent for your cooktop?

If DEFRA have approved it, it can't be all that bad can it?

Depends on the fuel you use and the settings that you use when you burn stuff. Defra assumes you are burning 'ready to burn' fuel, which your builder's wood probably isn't. It may even be treated with shit that will disperse in to the atmosphere, or at worse, your home, when you clean out the ash.

But if it's just untreated hard or softwood that's got a moisture content of 20% or less, it's probably fine. Get a reader.

As far as I know, the benefit of the Defra stoves is that they don't allow slumbering, and they generally burn much, much hotter that older stoves, meaning more stuff is combusted before it heads up the chimney.

But yea.

I burn waste wood that my builder drops off for me

It’s… untreated wood, right?

Some of the shit people burn in the 'UK woodburners' Facebook group is unreal. Painted fence panels, old window frames (with lead paint, probably), pallets, varnished off cuts, pressure treated softwood (great for kindling! Burns with such a nice color!)

This is why we can't have nice things.

Most of what I burn is plain old softwood. door linings, Bannisters, spindles, structural timber.

I have burnt old Victorian roof joists in the past. They burnt hot and well, no smell and no funny smoke. I wouldn't have all that much of a problem burning 100 year old wood to be honest. Plain non painted pallets are good too.

the study i linked to a few pages back used DEFRA approved stoves

First, the daily average indoor PM concentrations when a stove was used were higher for PM2.5 by 196.23% and PM1 by 227.80% than those of the non-use control group. Second, hourly peak averages are higher for PM2.5 by 123.91% and for PM1 by 133.09% than daily averages, showing that PM is ‘flooding’ into indoor areas through normal use.

but I also own two cars, neither of which are very good for the environment

I guess the main points are that

a) there quite a few functions for which there are no great replacements for a car (yet). The same isn't true for a woodburner, unless you live somewhere very rural

and b) that the net individual impact of car use is probably fairly low. It's the societal damage that is the worst. But with woodburners, it's definitely both.

also - burning structural wood is probably not great for you - it's not at all uncommon for those to be impregnated with heavy metals like copper, zinc and cadmium, among other nasty shit