How do I bathroom / kitchen / extension? etc.

Also - re. “Architects”

I think most people in their head imagine the sort of experience portrayed in that BBC thing. Whereas quite often for things like extensions it can be someone knocking out standard drawings that are almost 100% client led.

A mate in a nice part of Bucks found that the only people who'd come and talk to them for their 1960s place didn't offer anything beyond what they'd already thought of. They're quite handy and good with this sort of stuff so could be a reflection on them.

On the other side a nursery friend was talked down from going for the max size as the guy showed them why they didn't need it and that it would kill the outdoor use - which with a young kid they'd need. He's also worked in the area forever so got it straight through planning. The final design is not going to set any hearts racing, but it's a good eg of where the right person can add value.

I also wonder if sometimes what it's that the common designs just simply work 99.9% of the time once you factor everything in.

+1.
Builders dont want to fuck with the unknown, they want to do what they know using the most reliable methods and materials.

If it was in the ceiling void/boxed in you only need them at the joint and has to be adequately supported in the void too.

It’s all I pretty straight forward if I’m honest but I’ve never heard of the other system or been asked for it or seen anything in the gas magazine that it changed

I found them very good but I know @brokenbetty used them for something architect designed and had some issues.

It wasn't architect designed, it was just the bog standard. We went through a couple of versions of the plan and they started building from the wrong one and had to redo it. That threw the schedule out and they never really got back on top of it or seemed to bother even trying to.

Still, I'm sitting in a very pleasant usable loft office right now so can't fault the work, just the process.

How do I get started on a kitchen extension? I've had a look at local building firm websites and the portfolio pictures range from average to 'I can't believe you put that online'.

I know roughly what I want but I'd like some input on what's possible/what does and doesn't work/how best to utilise the odd land layout. And maybe some ideas a bit out there that will get us excited about living in a building site!
Is an architect what I want? It's a glorified conservatory but will need steels, clever ground stuff and to not look shit.

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It will add about 10% give of take but I think it’s probably worth it

If you want someone to bounce some ideas off and get advice on best use of land, then definitely an architect.

Also kitchens and associated work costs loads of money.

Ah, don't know why I had that idea then. For some reason I thought it was a more custom one.

Do you add the building works to the total to get a £40k kitchen?

We're a bit lucky there in that our boiler, main sinks and white goods (apart from dishwasher) are in the utility room and I plan to leave them there.

No, In my mind a kitchen cost would be cabinets, worktop directly related electrics and plumbing, kitchen specific redecoration/tiling and white goods, hobs and fitting.
I guess if it was minor structural works like knocking back a wall/arches that could be included?

The kitchen quotes you would get would just be cabinets/appliances/fitting/worktop though.

For example our kitchen approx cost:

Howdens kitchen units and appliances - £6700
Fitting - £2000
Quartz Worktop templating and fitting - £3100
Other white goods and appliances hobs/extractors - £3000
Estimate of directly related Kitchen related gas/electrics (including extra line from fuse box for induction hob) - £750

Total £15550.

Could have gone way over the top with shiny gaggenau appliance etc, but tried to keep to £15000 budget, having a friend giving me a great discount at Howdens helped us budget in a nice Quartz worktop.

Overall cost of gas and electrics is much more though, with underfloor heating, new boiler in new location.
Plus the Zinc roof, and the rest of the extension...

Big skylights are awesome though, definitely get one. In hindsight, maybe I would go for one that could open, or smart glass.
I think they do smart aftermarket film though.

What sort of cost should I be seeing for a wall removal between kitchen and dining room?

I think the wall follows the joists (not perpendicular) and has a stud wall above, I think it's about 3.5m wide.

One builder came round and suggested steel may not be needed just doubling up on the joist but could change and add one if needed once the ceiling was opened. Not seen any quotes yet due to ghosting.

Will need a new kitchen after but budget for that changes based on the building work costs so any idea would be helpful.

Here’s some advice. Stay away from your project while any propping is being done. Not content with stressing the bathroom floor with acrows, our builder knocked out half a ton of stone and left it on the floor over the weekend. He won’t be back until Monday earliest. (It’s propped from beneath, but still).

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architects are not here to have ideas bounced off them and give free advice.

Apologies if it sounds abrupt but that profession really suffers from a wrongful appreciation of their role and skills

Perhaps you added 'free' where it wasn't intended...

If your paying for there services i dont see any issues with bouncing ideas off plus I struggle to find an architect willing to do anything for free.

I wasn’t suggesting free advice.
Engage their services, and have the architects design an extension based on your plans and ideas? With input from both client and the professional?

At least when we engaged our architect, he listened to what we wanted, what was possible, gave opinions, and we discussed and changed the design somewhat after his preliminary design?

If anyone's got an idea of how to re-plan this bathroom without moving the waste connections, I'd be glad to hear. Been trying to think of a way to improve the layout but it's tricky! Best suggestion so far is shower into the window recess, but moving the toilet requires a macerator which I'd like to avoid.

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Is it not reasonable to have a discussion with an architect about what they might be able to do, preliminary ideas etc. Before you formally engage them?

Not asking to sound argumentative - but am considering doing this soon and would like to understand if my expectations are way off.

sorry i may have appeared bitter or whatever

the word "bouncing off" triggered me. I have seen this scenario play out a lot where potential clients will expect a few ideas and sketches they can almost walk with, ahead of appointing the designer. Which is not realistic when it comes to fees and workload.

@andyfallsoff You are right to expect to and fro about ideas with an architect, but the amount of it all depends on the size of the project. In the case of a small extension as sketched above, the bulk of the work is not in the design and aesthetics but in the actual drawing, tender, linking with the contractors
A design&build company is often better suited to this type of job as corners are already pre-cut, if i may shoot myself in the foot here.

caveat emptor : i am not a practising architect but obviously work in the field.

Interesting, ta - and no, not that you sound bitter, useful to hear experience!

I guess loads of people doing this as clients will have little or no experience so will be feeling their way through as well. E.g. In my case I don't really know what level of design I'll get back from design and build Vs an architect so can only try and work that out by asking questions - but completely appreciate it isn't reasonable to ask for the answer ("what can you design here") before paying the architect. Feels like a tricky one!

(As an aside, any recommendations for decent design and builders in SE London gratefully received!)

Would an architect not have a portfolio of sketches/ideas for this initial contact?
'Something like this Mr Hammer, obviously tailored to the land?'
'Yep great, where do I sign?'

The problem I am having at this very early stage is that the building firms around here (not london) all appear to want to build a brick box with small windows...

It sounds like yes, you could be a client for an architect., maybe if you want to have that experience and a different result.

I would say they will/should be able to synthetise their experience, your expectations ( possibly early ideas and sketches) and budget, and to offer a solution that would be a better return on money than you would have ever envisaged.

whereas a construction firm will offer you their base design with a spreadsheet of specs and some extras.

where are you based ?

I doubt they would have ideas or sketches for initial contact, every site is unique so bringing generic ideas would not really be helpful to anyone, their portfolio/previous work should be the references you need.
It sounds like using a good architect is what you want/need as builders stick with what they know, outside of London I imagine its even worse.
IMO the things that make almost the biggest difference is the glass, so work out how much you wanted to spend and type and choose accordingly (Max light for sliding doors and pivot doors, Velfac for French doors). A flat roof will allow for simpler roof lights which are all about 1K a pop and look the same.
If you have a strong idea what you want you could draw up rough plans, get hive mind input, and then get the technical stuff done by Resi (online "architects").
My references that I shared with our Architect: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/chrispgordon/final-references/

better return on money than you would have ever envisaged.

Return of what? I’m not sure how much extra return on investment a great design adds beyond added floor space and layout.
I can see a greater return of personal satisfaction.

Our architect specified all the top branded and premium materials which would have added about £20000 extra (our builder used the technical drawings as a guide).
Not sure getting the design within a specified price point was his biggest priority!