Varonha Frameworks: Randonneur

For more than ten years now, I've dreamt of owning a beautiful Randonneur bicycle. I think the ripe-old age of 30 might be the time to finally make it happen.

I've had several failed attempts at replicating such a ride in the past, normally by strapping 650B wheels and tight-fitting mudguards to disc-brake cyclocross frames. They've all looked pretty cool, but were incredibly heavy and stiff.

The attached image is one I've kept coming back to for years and years, it's simple and beautiful. It'll be my reference point for this build.

WIP frame-builder brief:

• A lightweight, fast and comfortable frame-set build in the style of a classic French randonneur
  
• Clearance for 650x42c with mudguards
  
• Low trail geometry
  
• Traditional low fork bend
  
• Eyelets for lowrider front rack
  
  

I do have lots of questions that I’m hoping the hive-mind can help out with here. I’m no expert in bicycle geometry but would like to have a rough idea of what I want before going to the builder for advice.

Geometry - Although this is a classic randonneur, I’d like it to have a responsive, fun and almost modern ride. Can anyone advise on how the geo of a modern day randonneur like those offered from MAP or Fitz differs from an older frame such as Rene Herse?

Brakes - I’m keen to keep this traditional and use either centre-pull or cantilever style rim brakes. I’ve had a few run-ins with Canti’s and they’ve always been disappointing. Is there a modern, lightweight cantilever brake that’ll stop the bike and be beautiful? PAUL brakes are a bit on the expensive side, but I could maybe make it happen if the reviews are exceptional.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - I'd like to get in touch with Winston and start processing this order at the end of the month.

Thanks for reading.

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had a few run-ins with Canti’s and they’ve always been disappointing.

Nothing in rim brakes will please you then IMO.

Go disc.

Impossible...For this bike I'd rather have shit brakes than disc brakes

then go canti

because if we assume your previous experience with them was shit because of user error/not set up properly etc. They are the best for getting most power and the kind of clearance for tyres and guards you are after.

Refer to scoble's Oak thread.

iconic statement btw

Can anyone advise on how the geo of a modern day randonneur like those offered from MAP or Fitz differs from an older frame such as Rene Herse?

Ergonomics have changed, so on an old randonneuse your hands were expected to be on the tops or the ramps of the handlebars, not on the (yet to be invented) hoods. On a modern bike you's put your hands on the hoods, plus you'd probably want a little saddle to bar drop. You could go full JH I guess and fit OG rando bars and modern STIs, for that super streched position...
Just specify a low BB (around the 72mm mark for 650x42b) and let the builder do his job for the rest.

Also it's a randonneuse, not a randonneur :-p

This needs discs

Surely ... definitely ... direct mount brakes? Then you get all the Randonneuseinstaclick dopamine hits babyyyy. Paul, Herse, you know the ones. What would be really sick would be a custom Y stem, Check out an account called Nigata (I think it then has some random numbers in the name) on Insta, also Brevet and Chapman and Herse etc.

Also make sure you have some sick light coming out of the seat tube or something (actually I think @skalliwag will now hate me for putting that in your head). Pump mounted somewhere really neat. One more bottle boss than anyone else has. Stainless cable rub stoppers like Mr Hallett does. Custom decals that are proper graphic design. oooh if I knew how to sub a thread I would.

But my main reason for posting:
Lowriders are fine, only if you have one of the amaze nitto Campee racks that have barbag mount (+decaleur extension upwards I think?) and removable squareish lowrider mounts.

Or just go custom racks which i think you really should. And get in there soon cos i hear Winston is snowed under.

And obviously down tube simplex shifters amirite

https://www.instagram.com/niigata0252/

Nice one @moog

Cheaper alternative to Paul direct mount center pulls could be the Dia-Compe ones, and they have the bonus of not needing the proprietary paul mounts

Welcome to the Varonha club!
Have some numbers written down, I found the easiest way was to copy (roughly) the geo of the bike I was most comfortable on at the time of going to see Winston, or get a proper bike fit first and take those numbers to Winston.
I fully endorse the use of canti/caliper/centre pull brakes, it's your frame you have to have what you want, besides how it functions, it has to look how you want it to, and if discs aren't your thing, don't have em. Well set up brakes with good cables and decent brake pads work fine. Currently I'm using Tektro long drop brake calipers, but these will get replaced with a set of Paul Racers, I got them cheap, but used good cables and pads, and they stop fine, but aesthetically they aren't right, I already knew this, and factored in that they would be the first thing to be upgraded. If you have the budget, get the things you want/like from the off.
Take Winston some pics of the kind of bike you're after, he's very knowledgeable and open to suggestions, but he's honest too, if summat won't work or he doesn't want to do it, he'll let you know. He's a lovely fella, which helps.
Good luck with it, will keep an eye out for future updates.
J

They don't need Paul mounts, they come with a collar that slides over a standard centre pull/canti stud. He made some special for Vanilla (if memory serves) then made no more.

imo get cantis and take to an old man in a shop to set up, and every time they need adjusting, eventually the price of this will force you to "learn how to set them up" and you'll slowly improve over 10 years or so, and just suffer with bad braking along the way

but you wont mind, because your bike will be VERY pretty

Thanks for the replies.

@Lolo I thought it was randonneuse too, but half the internet disagrees...je suis perdu.

Regarding the brakes, I think centre pull would be the best bet here - and the Dia Comp option
spotter suggested is reasonably priced and very pretty - wonder if they're a bit heavy though. I'd probably have gone for a secondhand set of Paul Racers, but that proprietary post thing is nonsense - surely that's an incredibly bad idea for a business who wants to sell as much of their product as possible?

What about Mafac Racers?

In other news, I spoke with Winston today which was really helpful. He suggested using slightly beefier fork blades and seat stays if I were going down the canti/centre pull route - I thought I should be aiming for these

Groupset choices seem like a million miles away at the moment, but I have 2 options in my head.

1) Dura Ace 7800 mechs, with DT shifters
2) Dura Ace 9000 mechs, shifters & cranks (as pictured)

I'd really like to go down the DT shifter route, but I'm sure I'll want to use a framebag at some point further down the line.

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Srsly look at scoble's thread, all of this is done in there, he did two bikes, 2nd one was more fucked up but had cantis.

Winston is a great builder and the bike will be good but go with EVERYTHING properly defined and dont be JB change your mind

As the french say, cest la weee

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/208138/
https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/299532/

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Super handy, thanks for sharing!

I love baklava. Halva can fuck off though.

probably have gone for a secondhand set of Paul Racers, but that proprietary post thing is nonsense

Pretty much all brazed on centerpulls are proprietary in both the mount and spacing. Even mafac is proprietary in its spacing for different brakes ie raids vs racer vs competition etc.

Paul cantis use standard canti studs with a sleeve slid over them, hence why you see so many Surlys with them, nothing proprietary there.
Paul centre pull brakes don't use proprietary studs, but do require specific stud placement , if you go direct mount!! Paul centre pulls are available in 3 flavours: direct mount, fork crown recessed allen bolt (like normal calipers) and old fashioned fork crown bolt and nut (non recessed).
Go recessed allen bolt fitting, use for a good while to make sure you're happy with the feel of them, then get them direct mounted later if you really want to. You're having a custom made frame, the whole thing is proprietary to you!

Good stuff!

Let's settle on randonneurz...!