Varonha Frameworks winter bike / FW Evans 650b conversion rat bike fun

Cheers @amey : )

Planet x Kaffenback. Not sure about clearance or front rack though.
Sorry about the Dawes

Thanks @Simba... yeah, I've been a little bit hungover and a little bit gutted all day today!

I've found a couple of Galaxies on ebay that are more or less exact replacements. One is even in London so I'm kiiiiind of thinking it might be easier to just buy that and transfer my bits onto it.

My old forks are still fine, so I could pop then in and still keep a bit of the original bike on the road
: )

Okay so.... took all the salvageable stuff off it today.

And now I feel an essay coming on.... and some plans brewing!!

Having thought about this a little bit more, I am starting to think it might be fun to get something I can convert to 650b. This solves the two main problems that bugged me about the Dawes; the top tube was ludicrously LOOOOONG, and the max tyre size with mudguards was 33mm (I would like 38 / 40s with guards).

Long top tubes on smaller-sized touring bikes are there to prevent toe overlap, which is only made worse by adding fatter tyre clearance, so....

...if I'm in the market for a small touring bike with big, bouncy tyres and a reasonably short top tube (which I certainly am), and if I would also like to use as many of the leftover bits as possible (which I certainly would), then doing a 650b conversion on an old 1" frame seems to be a good idea.

The rear wheel is totally pringled so I need to get one new rim anyway. Might as well get two and re-build the wheels... so why not build 650b's?

I've been watching videos and reading blog posts so I think I have a rough idea of what to look for in a donor frame / bike: biggish clearances between the chainstays, high-ish bottom bracket, and not unreasonable brake drop. Although more on that later.

I also want this to be my dedicated touring and commuting bike, so I'm looking for something that already has rear rack mounts, and therefore also has beefy enough tubing on the rear triangle to cope with the extra load. But I don't necessarily want an actual touring frame, as that will have the long top tube problem in my size...

So I'm thinking an old steel audax bike should do the trick. To carry front panniers I'll just get touring forks separately and pop them in... (I thought I might be able to re-use the forks from the Dawes, but unfortunately they're fucked). Yes, this might mess with the geometry - but I will bravely deal with that somehow. I've done it in the past and it was basically fine.

To make it ratty enough for London, I will strip the paint, let it rust a bit, then clearcoat it, like I did with the Dawes. While I'm doing this, I can get Winston (at Varonha, round the corner) to do whatever mods it might need - which will probably include getting canti studs brazed on in the right position to take the new wheel size (and therefore getting round the main headache of doing a 650b conversion), an extra bottle cage under the down tube, and some dynamo wiring up the inside of the forks.

Well done for reading all that if you got this far. Give yourself a pat on the back.

did i see you on south circ on a mercx ? I was in a grey skoda with a white bike on roof

I bloody wish.... no, I only have the Varonha up and running atm.

Only saw now the sad Dawes update... What an unjust ending for what I gather has been a very loyal bike.
Just being a little sentimental here: not sure on the photo but, are the rear triangle and headtube fine? If yes you're only two tubes and one fork away from repairing and at the same time you can shorten the top tube. Winston surely could confirm if viable...

That'll buff out

Ah, someone's already suggested this...

Imagine that! "Galaxies never die" stickers anyone?

Ha ha, I'd get one!

No, I'm afraid the whole thing is ruined... had a closer look as I was taking off the parts and even the fork / headtube are bent. Rear triangle too.... It's a total write-off.
: (

Tbh I'm quite excited at the prospect of finding something doesn't have a stupidly long top tube now anyway. I've been messaging people on ebay / fb marketplace today, so hopefully something will stick. There's a few good options but nothing perfect.

Anyway, more soon.

That's such a shame! At least now you can reflect on what you did and didn't like about the Dawes and create something that you're really happy with as a replacement.

Cheers @ltc.... important to try and see the silver linings here!

So, I have a few options:

1. A repainted Claude Butler Dalesman. 51 x 54.5cm, so 1.5cm shorter top tube than the Galaxy. But 5mm shorter in the seat tube, which makes me worry a bit about stem height... but not too much.
   It's a shame it's been repainted as it would have been cheaper and better (for my porpoises anyway) if it still looked ratty. Converting to 650b would involve moving the canti studs so the paint will have to go anyway.
   Otherwise, it's pretty good: lots of tyre clearance between the seat stays, all the mounts for racks etc already there.
   

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1. Bob Jackson custom Audax bike. Not an off-the-peg Audax as it's fillet brazed and the geo is weird: 53 x 53cm, which is pretty much my dream size. It already has rear rack mounts. Conversion to 650b would involve canti studs and modified touring forks. It's a little over-priced as a whole bike but I'm trying to persuade the seller to split just the frame.
   
   

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1. Much older Claude Butler. Nice and cheap, and decent size (53ish), but possibly too rusty and seized for me to want to bother with. Conversion would involve bottle cage mounts, canti studs, probably new rack mounts... probably new forks. So it might not be that cheap after all.
   

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Make sure you try this out with the intended wheel/tyre combo before you buy and start modding

1. Unknown Nervex thing.Good size (although again not sure how accurate the seller's measurements are - it just says size 53). Already has rack / guard mounts. In suitable condition to avoid feeling like I'm killing a puppy. Would need a few braze-ons and probably new forks. Major downside is that it's massively overpriced at £280 (!). But the brazing / filing is really impressive close-up, and maybe I can lowball a more reasonable price?
   

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Dalesman. All day long.

Shit luck on the Dawes. WTF! Where was it shackled up? I live in fear of parking spots that are prone to lorry-squashing funtimes.

I'd like to hear from anyone who's done a 650b conversion before, or anyone who has an opinion on which of the above might work best.... I'm sure there's a ton of pitfalls and problems I haven't thought of yet.

And is if by magic!

It was parked up in Holland Park (friend had an exhibition opening there). Went for a pint after we left the gallery, and came back to a squashed bike!

280 is absolutely ridiculous... looks at the condition of it:/

What a sod.

haha Yeah I converted a Pedersen to 650b as you know, I guess some of the problems I encountered will be pretty specific to this utterly stupid bike. Like the totally flexy tubes mean the brake posts are pretty wobbly! Guess the big thing to check out tyre clearances width-wise in forks and stays. Squeezed a 47c in the Pedersen, really suits a 42 better but plush is nice for roads, just need moar clearance for offroad tangly things.

I'm assuming you're moving the brake posts: worth having your brakes and wheels all ready so A N Other Framebuilder (I think i can guess who) can get the best spot for the new brake position. Obvious I guess but worth saying. EDIT and tyres mounted to see if some stay crimping might be needed! I didn't, but I should have.

If I were you i would consider discs instead (HERETIC), converted my Thorn 26r, stuck new SLX on and they are SO DOPE.

First of all: Wow what bummer and what shit move to just leave scene…

I think you saw my cp thread about the Raleigh Royal I converted to 650B.
I highly suggest getting / borrowing a wheel set with the size of tyres you would like to ride in the end. Helped me and Winston a lot. I was lucky to get an old set on here for £10. Another thing to consider is that 650b rim brake rims aren’t the easiest to come by at moment especially if you have specific requirements like tubeless compatible, silver, specific hole size.
Another thing to keep in mind is that financially this isn’t going to be as cheap as buying something used with 700c wheels or disc brakes because of the alternations to the frame, the required repainting, the specific new wheels and fork etc. For me that was okay because I wanted to build that bike as project. It wasn’t really about it making sense (it turned out pretty well though ;) ).

When looking for frames I would avoid frames from the 70s they tend to have very little clearance because it was cool and fast to run max 28c tyres apparently.

I know right?! I reckon it's worth £80 tops. I'd be happy to go over that if the measurements are spot on, mainly cos it's exactly the kind of frame I had in mind (it reminds me of my old favourite rat bike, now sadly departed)... and I'm a sucker for that Bishop Bikes thing of thinly-filed lugs, which that yellow one has a bit of.

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Thanks for the info.... I knew you were hankering after a Pedersen but didn't know you'd converted it; you nutter! Respect.

Yeah, the plan would be to get the wheels made asap so Winston can work his magic with real-life sizes. And to move the canti mounts to exactly the right place and bash dents in the stays.

I have been umming and ahing about disc brakes (as Oddo says, most 650b rims are for discs), but it's easier for now to keep what I have: obviously, discs are better in every way for this... but I don't really know anything about them, I can't be arsed with the research, and it would a mean having to get new calipers, levers and hubs... and new spares!

Path of least resistance, here I come (well.... kind of... in some areas).

EDIT: @Skülly just read your Pedersen thread; brilliant stuff, That bike is really something else!