#blacklivesmatter racism is a human problem

saw him a couple of years back, and he had me in stitches.
Lots of blowback from his last netflix special in terms of his jokes about trans people/community, I haven't seen it yet so the following comments might come back to make me look like and idiot when I do, but it kind of reminds me of how black artists are held to a different standard by critics usually white, but in Dave's case black as well, when it comes to material some may find offensive.

Totally agree .
He's holding other communities to account about their ambivalence to the oppressive system of racism .

We actually watched it last night, had us in stitches too, nothing is off limits.

Found Ekow Eshun's White Mischief on R4 the last few weeks a good listen, listening to the Government advisor go from saying there is no such thing as white privilege to of course that exists and needs dealing with after having it explained to him was a complete wtf moment on my drive yesterday

Not to minimise racism in the slightest, but it is just a subset of classism, like sexism or 'gender criticality'; one of those foul notions that some are born to shit on others...

It's just, I don't see people talking about the identity politics that matters the most; how 99% of us are being shat on by a tiny few, who are crushing human potential, and driving our societies, not to mention our very ecosystem, off a fucking cliff while we all look at anything else but that.

I have a pretty strong feeling that tackling racism is futile until we tackle those it serves. And that lots and lots of very big problems like racism would suddenly be a whole lot smaller - the light would appear at the end of the tunnel.

But we are so very far in the dark; things are pretty screwed when crushing depression is a perfectly sane response 🤔🤢🤮

Not to minimise racism in the slightest

Minimises racism.

Whilst most of what you say afterward is valid, racism and sexism etc. exist alongside it as both part of what you're on about on an institutional level and separately from it on a more individual level, both need sorting.

Not to minimise racism in the slightest, but

the identity politics that matters the most

Interesting use of the word "just"

Some people are affected by classism and racism. Some people will be affected by classism but not racism.
Individual experience will play a role in determining what things people might be more focussed on.

but you can't fight it with more racism

How does one even attempt that?

Mhmm, is this what people call 'reverse racism'?

Judging white people because they are white. Labelling all white people as privileged.

Fuck off mate, if you're pissing yourself over the phrase "white privilege" it's not labelling all white people as privileged, it's just pointing out that in this and similar societies white people don't have to deal with certain things pertaining to not being white on top of whatever else they may have to deal with. Much like the guy who posted recently that he got called a foreign cunt when trying to speak Hungarian on the phone, the blatant pervasive racism can be pretty invisible to those not on the tail end of it, which is a privilege those who do have to deal with it, usually due to race but also due to sex or accent or surname or whatever else, don't have.

I said fuck off mate, stand by it though based on what you wrote. All of what you said is awful and no one should have to go through it, but you're basically misunderstanding the phrase, your Mexican-American not friend was too really.You, and I, are not outright privileged because we're white, but we don't have to deal with certain race based things on top of whatever else we have to deal with, which is a privilege. Assuming you're a bloke too you won't have to deal with certain sex based issues on top of everything else, which is male privilege in the same way, it doesn't mean that you also don't have stuff to deal with, possibly things that people of colour or women or whoever don't have to, which is a part of their privilege.

But now I do have to deal with race related things because of 'white privilege

Now you do, exactly the point really isn't it, you've never had to deal with it before because you're white, if you weren't you would've been dealing with it your whole life on top of everything else, that's a privilege.

Gone already?
Though things had stayed relatively tame

Don't feed trolls.

Because when I nuke them you look kinda daft :D

Deleted as feeding a dead troll.

What's the deal with people just starting to post on an account that says it was created years ago anyway?
I'm assuming the trolls aren't that well prepared.

Minimises racism.

Whilst most of what you say afterward is valid, racism and sexism etc. exist alongside it as both part of what you're on about on an institutional level and separately from it on a more individual level, both need sorting.

Although a certain degree of implicit bias is more or less hardwired, the term 'racism' refers to systemic bias (the reason reverse racism is a non sequitur), which I posit is almost entirely a legacy of divide and conquer set in place by the ruling class.

It is primarily a tool of subjugation, operating on behalf of the elite. Reducing racism to identity politics is like buying the lie that individual action is what matters in tackling the climate crisis; without any rearrangement of the system, the problem will remain.

I'm sure telling that to a kid who just had racist slurs shouted at him by another kid of the same socioeconomic class, or a footballer getting racist abuse from fans wouldn't minimise their experience at all. Yes systemic change is needed, yes racism is used as a tool of subjugation by elites, but ignoring individual actions will also lead to the problem remaining.

ignoring individual actions will also lead to the problem remaining.

Pretty sure I didn't advocate anything of the sort. I'm asserting that folks are missing the wood for the trees if individual actions are all they see, and that trying to educate individuals to behave better is largely futile while you have the kind of scum running the show who are happy to stay in power by pressing buttons in people's amygdalas.

Leaders not worthy of the name poison the culture - we all know this from experience in the workplace. A given slice of the populace considers hate legitimised.

I'm asserting that folks are missing the wood for the trees if individual actions are all they see

I don't think anyone is missing the wood or the trees in this case, apart the the trees you seemingly minimised, if not ignored, in your posts. Both are important, changing systems is obviously the big goal, but those systems aren't going to change themselves, showing that change is wanted and needed on an individual or local level will be what drives larger change and shows support for it. Also, telling someone that their experience of racism is what they're stuck with until a systemic change is brought about that will likely benefit future generations as trying to educate racists is futile, seems a lot like minimising racism and letting racists off the hook for something they should be personally responsible for.

You do a good job of making it sound like a chicken and egg situation, but I'm still inclined to reiterate that racism is self-evidently a subset of classism. Doesn't that make classism the root problem?

Also, telling someone that their experience of racism is what they're stuck with until a systemic change is brought about that will likely benefit future generations as trying to educate racists is futile, seems a lot like minimising racism and letting racists off the hook for something they should be personally responsible for.

I wouldn't dream of letting racists off the hook. But if you look out the window, it might be apparent that if we give it another decade without tackling classism, the tiny-minded avarice of the neoliberal filth will soon render the whole question moot. Civilised behaviour requires a civilisation to happen in.

Why can't we just adopt the simplest rule of thumb that covers it all?

Never punch down. Kick up.

Too nuanced to make a simplified rule?

People experience effects of both institutional and personal attacks of racism. Dealing with both is different, and it's not white people that have to deal with that.

But if you look out the window, it might be apparent that if we give it another decade without tackling classism, the tiny-minded avarice of the neoliberal filth will soon render the whole question moot. Civilised behaviour requires a civilisation to happen in.

This is all true, apart from the bit about rendering the question moot, which again is minimising people's experiences of racism. It's also no good ignoring the trees to save the wood when those trees are telling you they're being attacked and you can listen to those trees and help them whilst saving the wood, or whatever long-winded metaphor we're going with. Do both, do better innit.

Do both

Given the systemic nature of the problem and its causes, I see a total lack of attention, let alone emphasis, on taking down the scum driving the world off a cliff.

Seems to me, a sense of solidarity is sorely lacking. If I pipe up with the point I'm making here in a place dominated by the sort of groupthink floating around academic circles, I'm relentlessly strawmanned as the enemy despite my hard left credentials; a Bernie Bro to be pilloried. Glad to see it's not so bad here...

Circular firing squads may well provide a nice buzz of happy neurotransmitters for those all wrapped up in the fashionable dogma, but I'm sure the enemies of humanity and the planet are happy about them too. Almost everyone has a smaller share of wealth, and more importantly, self-determination than they deserve, but we can't even make that an identity we can all share?

Oppression Olympics are a complete distraction from the main game - ending toxic hierarchy. Show me some people around here talking about that, and I'll concede we're doing both.

Like, yay BLM, but where the fuck is Occupy?