That Starmer fella...

There are some positioning wins from Labour/Starmer, for example: talking about the need for global standards/trade when Brexit topics come up which really creates stealthy alignment with EU standards/trade without being anti-Brexit, or becoming 'crap news' fodder.

This I think is the most misunderstood bit of his platform. Get Brexit Working is crass, but it uses the Tories attack lines against them, and it's nothing the average Brexiter or Remainer could object to.

The reality is that we cannot rejoin the EU until we are a stable country again. Fixing the NI issues, fixing friction on trading, fixing the things we CAN fix outside the Single Market is the first step to showing we're not the swivel eyed loons of Johnson's administration, and once the financial pressures begin to ease, the argument for closer alignment makes itself.

I think yesterday's focus on long-term sustainable change is right, since it applies to ALL our problems including this one.

Sunak and the Tories would still sink Starmer and Labour at an election (ignore the polls - they have been shown time and again to be wrong)

This is nonsense. The accuracy of polls when things are close can be questioned, but when every polling company, with their different sampling and methodologies, all have a 20%+ gap, that is going to be a pretty accurate picture.
The final result will probably narrow because of shy tories, voter suppression, Sunak chucking around money in a budget, but everything points to the tories losing - the only question is by how much.
Replacing Starmer now would be reinforcing the 'all parties are the same' and 'labour are always infighting' messages. Having some stability in the face of tory chaos is really valuable, particularly as they go into the next round of fighting about NI.

I really hope this is right.

Polls can, and often do, dramatically change in the run up to elections though. There’s still 14 months to go.

I think it’s more that “ignore the polls” allows the OP to position themselves as the only source of truth.

There are no trustworthy objective measurements: only their opinion is valid

Sunscreen?

The accuracy of polls when things are close can be questioned, but when every polling company, with their different sampling and methodologies, all have a 20%+ gap, that is going to be a pretty accurate picture.

When I was a kid I remember seeing this Spitting Image sketch where some Tory bunting adorned monstrosity answered 'Labour' to the 'Who are you going to vote for?' question.

But yeah maybe polling has got better?

The theory I read somewhere is that Labour GE numbers are being flattered right now by "don't knows", i.e. historical Tory voters that are pissed off with the blue team but can't quite face saying they are going to vote Labour.

Potential for backsliding in that group if things calm down under Sunak - who is getting a bit lucky with both the energy crisis and economic outturn not being quite as bad as forecasts.

There’s still 14 months to go.

Isn't it Jan 2025 latest?

Oh.

It would seem they’ve done all manner of messing with the Fixed Term Parliament Act over the last few years while I wasn’t looking.

ETA: including repealing it apparently.

dude loves prisons, and it's not really sensational to say that

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jul/­03/riot-prosecutions-sentences-keir-star­mer

Just on thst first link, his point is speed of prosecution. Pretty sure that that's a well documented thing - people waiting for ages separates the act from the sentence.

"I was not so persuaded the sentences in and of themselves were the real issue," he said. "For me it was the speed [of processing cases] that I think may have played some small part in bringing the situation back under control.

the point being, he's a lefty and the best he can answer for the underpinning of what lead to the riots and solutions to them, while in absalute control of the prosecution service, a position of material power, is to send people to prison as quick as possible to send a message of fear and control.

put this in context with his general pro criminalization, or anti leagalization stances you can see he's a pro carceral politician - and tbqh - when we think about the causes of crime and tackling them, someone who cannot discuss this further than crime or punishment, with a record of explicitly being pro carcarel solutions, and an expansion of state surveilance aperatus, it's not particularly poggers for a leader of the left leaning party

it's 2023 and he's to the right of many american politicans and states on this, several european countries, starmer is at least, not a prison abolitionist, or even a reformist (he's someone who seeks to make it more efficient), at worst is a punitive conservative on criminal justice compared to his peers nationally and internationally.

starmer is also quite flexible on a lot of things, he's inherently pragmatic, which is why i ignore a lot of what comes out of his mouth. however, it's clear that he's consitently pretty firm on his beliefs around crime and punishment and where he see's priority. which imo, anyone in the broardest tent of "anyone other than a tory" on the left should be holding his feet to the fire on

i actually had the same criticism of corbyns manifestos being pretty light on prison and policing reform , the current system and policing is a main driver of racism and cyclical poverty in this country, as well as failing some of the most vulnerable (homeless, abuse victims, women, gay and trans people). it's unpopular to talk about sure, this is a first pass 14 months out sure, but with the likely hood of this man getting power (other than a huge shift in polling or a fuck up on his part), it's something we looking to vote for this party should be talking about

Nah. I can't get on board with that.

What do you want him to do as head of the prosecution service? Fund local community centres? Change the school curriculum to have more after school activities? Increase local police numbers?... or maybe.... prosecute people?

best he can answer

He's giving a profiling interview answer which gives an example of the role he played in an event.

TLDR, he's not s fucking Tory, he's shit but better than the Tories.

What do you want him to do as head of the prosecution service?

I want the leader of the Labour Party not to be the kind of man who would take that job.

I want much better, but I'll happily settle for less worse.

Did he run over your dog or something? you seem to be treating this all like a personal vendetta.

Edit for grammar

Fair enough.

Not to get all Shy Tory X Centrist Dad collabo about it, but when people commit crimes there do need to be consequences. I'd prefer a well run and well funded justice system that quickly convicts and punishes people. I'd agree that there is too much criminalisation, but ultimately you can't legalise all crime.

But, yeah, it does make you worry that he'll follow in New Labour's footsteps of criminalising children, etc. Just got to hope that he's tough on the causes of crime too.

I'd prefer a well run and well funded justice system that quickly convicts and punishes people.

I'd prefer a well funded justice system that quickly convicts and rehabilitates people.

It’s not about his stance on crime, I don’t want crime, I very much liked ol’ Tony’s ‘tough on crime tough on the causes of crime’ line. Magnificent centrist dad stuff right there.

It’s about him being an archetypal, long-serving man of the establishment. I know Jez was too much of a hippy to get elected, but fuck me there must be something in between that and a knight of the empire.

Not an attack but I never understood the line that Starmer was an establishment tool while Jezza was a man of the people. Corbyn was born into enormous privilege, grew up on a country manor and went to private school, whereas Starmer grew up like the rest of us. Corbyn and Johnson have more in common with each other than Starmer has with either of them.

Sure. It’s not about your childhood though, we don’t get to choose that, it’s about who choose to be as an adult once you’re [time or money] rich enough to make an active decision.

Maybe I’m being harsh, maybe he had an epiphany. Maybe Rocky was right and we can all change.

This argument is not valid IMO. Braverman, Patel, Sunak all born to immigrant parents and still want to deport. Upbringing or privilege doesent bore the same outcome.

I can't remember the exact quote but Starmer on becoming DPP said something along the lines of I realised I could change things quicker from the outside in.

I can't say I'm knowledgeable enough to assess whether he balanced out as good or bad in the role but I seem to remember he did good work on rape and domestic violence guidelines for instance.

Personally I prefer MPs to have some life experience outside of politics (although the current crop of Tory MPs are stretching this) rather than the professional politicians who have spent their lives in that area.

Upbringing or privilege doesent bore the same outcome.

Absolutely. Tony Benn is someone I admire greatly and he was slightly posher than Corbyn. This isn't about background denoting politics. I'm just saying that both Corbyn and Benn are (at least on a class analysis) much more representative of what I think of as the establishment than someone like Starmer.

slightly posher than Corbyn

I would saying that being a viscount is a lot posher than going to a minor public school. (sorry if I missed sarcasm).